“Christian Beliefs” that the Bible Doesn’t Teach

232 comments on ““Christian Beliefs” that the Bible Doesn’t Teach”

1. The Bible Doesn’t Say It! | Spiritual Insights for Everyday Life says:

   January 6, 2014 at 12:19 am

   […] “Christian Beliefs” that the Bible Doesn’t Teach […]

   Reply
   • Trevor says:

     January 6, 2014 at 12:05 pm

     As for the Jesus and the Bible speaking figuratively and in parables, don’t forget Psalm 78 which begins with a line saying, “I will open my mouth in a parable…” and then goes on to tell a historical lesson.
     -Trevor

     Reply
     • Lee says:

       January 6, 2014 at 1:11 pm

       Hi Trevor,

       Psalm 78 is a great one. Thanks!

       For those who want to follow up on it a bit, see the article, “Can We Really Believe the Bible?” It quotes the first two verses, and gives a link to the whole psalm.

       Also, Matthew 13:34-35 quotes Psalm 78:2 in explaining Jesus’ use of parables. So the Bible itself makes the connection between parables in the New Testament and the parables in the Old Testament.

       Reply
   • Matt says:

     August 21, 2015 at 5:19 am

     What works did the thief on the cross do for his salvation? What about Ephesians 2:8-10? Romans 5:1? Romans 6:23? Galatians 3:8, 3:24?

     Quick, I have been stabbed in the chest and have 3 minutes to live, tell me how I can be saved!

     As far as Christ paying the penalty, what about 1 Peter 1:24? Hebrews 9:22? Hebrews 10:10? Colossians 1:22?

     Reply
     • Lee says:

       August 21, 2015 at 8:46 am

       Hi Matt,

       Thanks for stopping by, and for your questions.

       As I’ve said elsewhere, clearly the thief on the cross had been reconsidering his actions, since he recognized on the cross that he had acted wrongly. That is an act of repentance. And right there on the cross, he witnessed to the other, unrepentant thief. He showed by these actions that he had truly repented from his sins, and committed himself to no longer engaging in them.

       Here are the passages you refer to in the first group:

       For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

       Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. (Romans 5:1)

       For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

       And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, In you shall all the nations be blessed. (Galatians 3:8)

       So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. (Galatians 3:24)

       In these passages Paul speaks of the importance of faith. He never says that faith is the only thing required for salvation. In fact, in Ephesians 2:10 he specifically says that we are “created in Christ Jesus for good works.”

       Of course it isn’t our works that save us. It is God’s love (“grace”) that saves us. But if we do not do the good works that we are created in Christ Jesus to do, then we have rejected God’s love and grace, and therefore cannot be saved.

       If we sin, we will die. That is the message of Romans 6:23. Therefore just as John the Baptist, Jesus, and Jesus’ disciples all preached, if we wish to be saved we must repent from our sins. We cannot do that by our own power, but we can do it by the power of Jesus Christ working within us. And faith is the pathway through which we accept Jesus’ power into our lives.

       And here are the passages you refer to in the second group:

       For all flesh is like grass and all its glory like the flower of grass. The grass withers, and the flower falls, (1 Peter 1:24)

       Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins. (Hebrews 9:22)

       And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. (Hebrews 10:10)

       He has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him. (Colossians 1:22)

       These passages speak of how Jesus saves us from our sins. There is too much in them to provide any detailed commentary on their meaning here in the comments. However, not a single one of them says that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins. There is not one passage in the entire Bible that says that. It is not in the Bible, and it is a false teaching.

       The Bible says that Jesus came to save us from our sins (Matthew 1:21). These passages are about how Jesus does that. Once we have been saved from our sins, we are no longer sinners, but righteous people (even if not perfect). And when we stop sinning and act righteously instead, we no longer draw the wages of sin, which is death. This we can do as Christians only through the power of Jesus Christ in our lives.

       If you wait until you’ve been stabbed in the chest and are dying to take any steps toward salvation, I’m sorry, but you shouldn’t have procrastinated! You can’t live an evil, unrepentant life, and expect that you’ll be saved with your last dying breath. That’s what Jesus was talking about in this teaching:

       But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

       Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him. (Matthew 24:36-44)

       And in another Gospel:

       “Be dressed ready for service and keep your lamps burning, like servants waiting for their master to return from a wedding banquet, so that when he comes and knocks they can immediately open the door for him. It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes. Truly I tell you, he will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table and will come and wait on them. It will be good for those servants whose master finds them ready, even if he comes in the middle of the night or toward daybreak. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”

       Peter asked, “Lord, are you telling this parable to us, or to everyone?”

       The Lord answered, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the other servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.” (Luke 12:35-46)

       When death comes suddenly, it is too late, and a person’s eternal course is set. That’s why people who are living evil, selfish, and sinful lives must repent now, not put it off, thinking they’ll do it later.

       Reply
       • Chris says:

         October 7, 2019 at 10:25 pm

         I disagree with your assessment on needing good works and faith to be saved. It’s only faith that is needed to be saved. Read all of Romans 3. It can’t be any more clear than saying no one does good, not even one or no one is righteous, not even one. “Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.”
         ‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:20‬ ‭NIV‬‬
         https://www.bible.com/111/rom.3.20.niv

         “This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,”
         ‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:22‬ ‭NIV‬‬
         https://www.bible.com/111/rom.3.22.niv

         “Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith.”
         ‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:27‬ ‭NIV‬‬
         https://www.bible.com/111/rom.3.27.niv

         If no one does good, not even one, then no one could possibly be saved. Our purpose is to first have faith and then work towards upholding the law to the best of our abilities. Some of us will struggle more than others. Is that person worse off than another who is stronger? No, bc no one does good, not even one.

         If works is required how do you ever know where you stand? You can’t ever know, which strips you of faith. But if faith is all I need, and I’m conscious and aware of my sin and need for Jesus, then I can walk confidently in my faith. I’ll never achieve full success though. Not until we are dead or Jesus returns.

         This article is completely misleading. If you read the Bible out of context you could easily see your confusion and unfortunately confuse others. Reading just Romans 2:5-16 is not the full picture. Read further and the right answer is right in front of you.

       • Lee says:

         October 7, 2019 at 10:59 pm

         Hi Chris,

         Thanks for stopping by, and for your comment.

         However, it is you, my friend, who are reading Romans 3 out of context, and not getting the full picture.

         You can’t just ignore Romans 2, where Paul says explicitly that God will judge everyone for eternal life or for wrath and fury according to each one’s deeds. Paul does not contradict himself.

         Nor can you ignore what Paul was actually talking about in Romans 3, which is that it is not necessary to be circumcised, and an observant Jew, to be saved. Otherwise Paul’s words about Jews and circumcision in Romans 2:17–3:1, and again in Romans 3:27–4:12 would have no meaning. (Remember, there were no chapter and verse divisions in the original Greek text. The letter is all one seamless whole.)

         When Paul says that we are saved by faith without the works of the law, he means by faithfulness to Jesus without observing the works of the Jewish ritual law. Obviously he does not mean without doing good works, because he has just said in Romans 2:6 that God “will repay according to each one’s deeds.” And you will notice if you read Paul’s letters carefully that he never says that we are not saved by good works. Only by “works,” which is short for “the works of the Law,” as you can see by his taking up the subject of circumcision and uncircumcision, and of Jews vs. Gentiles, everywhere he speaks of being saved by faith without works.

         To learn about the debate that Paul was engaged in at that time, which provides the context and meaning of his statements in Romans, Ephesians, and elsewhere about being saved without “works,” read the account of “the Council at Jerusalem” in Acts 15.

         You are very much mistaken, my friend, if you think that Paul taught that we are saved by faith without good works. He never says any such thing. Rather, he says explicitly what we will be judged according to what we have been done, just as James, John, Peter, and Jesus Christ himself said.

         Here are several articles that cover this in much more detail:

         • Faith Alone Does Not Save . . . No Matter How Many Times Protestants Say It Does
         • Faith Alone Is Not Faith
         • Doesn’t Ephesians 2:8-9 Teach Faith Alone?

         I realize that you sincerely believe what you have been taught by your Protestant teachers about salvation by faith alone. But that is the teaching of Martin Luther and John Calvin, not the teaching of the Bible. I invite and urge you to read these articles, and learn what the Bible really teaches about salvation.

         Of course, we can’t buy our way into heaven through good works, nor can we do good works by our own power, so that we could take credit for them. Any good works we do come not from ourselves, but from the Lord Jesus Christ, as he himself taught us:

         Abide in me as I abide in you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit by itself unless it abides in the vine, neither can you unless you abide in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. Those who abide in me and I in them bear much fruit, because apart from me you can do nothing. (John 15:4–5)

         It is Jesus Christ who gives us the ability to do good works when we turn to him in faith and love. On our own, we cannot do any good, as the scriptures say. But in his power, we can do the good works that he gives us to do.

         For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand to be our way of life. (Ephesians 2:10)

       • Michael says:

         August 19, 2023 at 4:45 pm

         I disagree with your assessment. Jesus himself said our “good works are like filthy rags.” Even our best intentions are tainted with selfishness, self righteousness, lust, greed, sexual immorality. Jesus said believe on me and be saved. He didn’t say believe on me and do good to be saved/continue to be saved. And as far as the Bible not teaching that Jesus never paid the penalty for our sins, you clearly missed many verses that say this clearly. I’ll post a few that I have found, but that’s not the complete list:
         1 Peter 2:24
         He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.
         Isaiah 53:5
         But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed.
         Matthew 20:28
         Even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
         Isaiah 53:1-12
         Who has believed what he has heard from us? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? For he grew up before him like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground; he had no form or majesty that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed.
         1 Peter 3:18
         For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.
         Hebrews 9:15
         Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
         I didn’t even read the rest of your blatant false accusations because even if some are true, the ones you lie about are important enough to know that your whole speal is a lie and a false teaching meant to mislead those who are truly seeking salvation and forgiveness.
         Jesus said he had come to die for our sins. But if you lead people to believe that he didn’t, then they have no hope.
         Salvation is by belief that Jesus is the son of God and faith alone! That his death paid the penalty. THAT IS LOVE!

       • Lee says:

         August 20, 2023 at 12:27 am

         Hi Michael,

         Thanks for stopping by, and for your comment. Normally I simply delete disrespectful and insulting comments such as yours pursuant to point 5 of our comments policy. But since you brought up some Bible passages, I will respond.

         Short version: Every single point you make is biblically wrong, except that Jesus died for our sins, which you understand wrongly. I strongly advise you to follow the Bible and Jesus Christ, our Lord and our God, instead of following the man Martin Luther and his disciples. Luther and his followers, and not the Bible, are the source of your beliefs.

         First: Jesus did not say that our good works are like filthy rags. And not only was he not the one who said it, but you have quoted it wrongly. The actual statement is in Isaiah 64:6. Here it is in the traditional King James Version:

         But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

         It doesn’t say “good works.” It says “righteousnesses.” And it goes on to say that everything the people do fades like a leaf, and their iniquities have taken them away. In other words, the reason their righteousnesses are like filthy rags is that they are engaged in iniquity. The very next verse tells us why:

         And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.

         God is hidden from them because of their iniquities, and none of them calls upon the name of the Lord. That is why their righteousnesses are like filthy rags.

         Consider a man who goes to church every week, gives to charity, and helps old ladies across the street, but he makes his money in organized crime, preying on the people with one hand while publicly aiding them with the other. His “righteousnesses” are like filthy rags because of his iniquities. That is why Isaiah also says, in the very first chapter of his book of prophecy:

         Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it. (Isaiah 1:16–20, KJV, emphasis added)

         And indeed, with the Lord’s power working in us, it is very possible for our righteousness not to be like filthy rags, but to be acceptable in the Lord’s sight, as we are told in the Gospels themselves:

         In the days of King Herod of Judea, there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly order of Abijah. His wife was descended from the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. Both of them were righteous before God, living blamelessly according to all the commandments and regulations of the Lord. (Luke 1:5–6, NRSV, emphasis added)

         Biblically, you are wrong that “Jesus himself said our ‘good works are like filthy rags.'” And you wrongly understand the passage that does say something like this.

         Second: Jesus certainly did say “believe on me and do good to be saved/continue to be saved,” in many, many places. For example:

         Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

         “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

         “Which ones?” he inquired.

         Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”

         “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

         Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Matthew 19:16–21, NIV)

         Here, every single time this man asked Jesus what he must do to get eternal life, Jesus responded with good things that he must do. And in the end, Jesus told the man to follow him, meaning believe in him. So here Jesus says both that we must believe in him and that we must do good works.

         I could give many more examples. They are all through the Gospels. The fact that you don’t see them shows that you have been utterly blinded by Martin Luther’s false doctrine, such that you cannot even read what the Bible says and understand it. But here is just one more example for now:

         When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left.

         Then the king will say to those at his right hand, “Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.”

         Then the righteous will answer him, “Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?”

         And the king will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.”

         Then he will say to those at his left hand, “You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.”

         Then they also will answer, “Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?”

         Then he will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.” And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. (Matthew 25:31–46)

         Here Jesus says as plain as day that people of all nations who do good works will be saved, whereas those who do not will be damned.

         You are biblically wrong that Jesus “didn’t say believe on me and do good to be saved/continue to be saved.” That is exactly what Jesus said, over and over again.

         Third: You are biblically wrong that the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins. In fact, the Bible never says this.

         You have quoted a number of passages, none of which says that Christ paid the penalty for our sins. The words “pay” and “penalty” don’t even occur in those passages. The Bible simply doesn’t say this. And your quoting of all these passages that you think say it, but actually don’t, is even more proof of this. If the Bible had actually said that Christ paid the penalty for our sins, you could quote a passage that says it. But you can’t, because it’s not there.

         So you are biblically wrong that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins. The Bible simply never says this.

         Jesus did die for our sins. That is the one biblically true statement you have made. But because you have accepted Luther’s false doctrine, you do not understand what that means. However, it would take too long to explain it to you here.

         Finally, you are biblically wrong that we are saved by faith alone. The Bible is quite explicit about this. In the one passage in the entire Bible that even mentions faith alone, it is specifically and emphatically rejected:

         You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. (James 2:24)

         Paul could have said that we are saved by faith alone. But he never did. There’s a reason for that. Paul believed and taught no such thing. That idea was originated, not by Paul, but by Martin Luther 1,500 years after the last books of the Bible were written. See:

         Faith Alone Does Not Save . . . No Matter How Many Times Protestants Say It Does

         On every single point you have made, except that Jesus died for our sins, you are wrong according to the Bible itself. That’s why you cannot quote a single passage from the Bible that actually says any of these things.

         You are following a man, Martin Luther, not the Bible, and certainly not our Lord and our God, Jesus Christ, who taught us in the Gospels everything we need to believe and do to be saved and gain eternal life.

         I urge you to abandon Luther and his false teachings, and follow the Bible and Jesus Christ instead.

   • Casey says:

     December 16, 2015 at 7:31 pm

     The word “hell” in many bible translations is mistranslated from the word “Sheol” which does not mean “hell”. The OT never used the word “hell”. The KJB, for example, used the word “hell” in the wrong meaning. The wicked shall return to DUST. Hell was meant for the fallen angels, not for human torment. If I’m wrong, why wasn’t Adam and Eve and a bunch of other bad people never threatened with “eternal damnation”?

     Reply
     • Lee says:

       December 18, 2015 at 3:15 am

       Hi Casey,

       Thanks for stopping by, and for your comment and question.

       In response, it is true that the original meanings of the various words for hell, especially in the Old Testament, were not a place of eternal torment, but “the grave” or perhaps “the underworld,” which was conceived of as a physical place underneath the earth. (The earth was thought to be a flat disk.) Even in the New Testament, terms such as Gehenna, commonly translated as “hell,” referred to physical places—in that case, the valley of Hinnom, next to Jerusalem, where pagans (and disobedient Israelites) had formerly sacrificed their children by fire to their gods, and which later became a cursed place where trash and other refuse was burned.

       The reason these words were used to refer to hell is that the ancient Israelites, like the nations surrounding them, were a very materialistic people, whose minds were focused almost entirely on this world. They had little or no concept of an afterlife, and many, if not most, believed that when we die, we simply go into the grave, and that is the end of our existence.

       Because of this belief of theirs, there were no words in their language to describe an eternal afterlife, either for the good or for the evil. That concept only developed later in their history, and was not yet fully developed even when Christ came and the New Testament was written.

       And because of that, when God wanted to speak in the Bible of the afterlife, either heaven or hell, it was necessary to use the words that were available in the existing human languages as metaphors for the afterlife. Even the basic meaning of the words for “heaven” in both Hebrew and Greek is not “heaven” as we think of it, but rather “the sky.” Similarly, the words for “hell” generally mean the grave, the underworld (which we today would think of as the system of underground caves all over the world), and places that had become corrupted and cursed through pagan idol worship.

       None of this means that there is no hell as a spiritual place where evil people experience eternal torment. Rather, it means that as is common in the Bible, our state in the afterlife was pointed to using common, and rather materialistic, human concepts as metaphors for the deeper, spiritual truth about the afterlife.

       Similarly, Adam and Eve were not threatened with eternal damnation, but with death because in the minds of the ancient human authors and audience of the Bible, death in disgrace before one’s time was the ultimate catastrophe, and the end of one’s existence. Keep in mind that at the time God told Adam (who later apparently told Eve) that if they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, they would die on that very day (see Genesis 2:16-17)—and also at the time when they did eat from that tree—they had no children. If they had literally died on that very day, that would have been the end of humanity almost before it even got started.

       But “death” itself, in a negative sense, is also used in the Bible as a metaphor for spiritual death, which is hell. That is the meaning of “the second death” in Revelation 2:11; 20:6, 14; 21:8.

       Clearly Adam and Eve did not physically die on the day they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. But they did experience a spiritual death on that very day, at that very instant: the death of their innocence. This is expressed in the Bible by the verse immediately after the one in which they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil:

       Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made loincloths for themselves. (Genesis 3:7)

       In the Bible, “nakedness,” when it has negative connotations, is commonly used as a metaphor for shame and guilt.

       “Returning to dust,” though it refers physically to our bodies decomposing into the soil after our physical death, is also a metaphor for spiritual death, which is when our spirit turns toward evil, and chooses evil over good. This does not result in the annihilation of our spirit, but rather its entry into hell.

       All of this is why, even though as you say, the original meanings of the various Hebrew and Greek words in the Bible were not a place of eternal torment, but various physical places and states, they came to also mean hell as a place of eternal torment, and are therefore rightfully translated that way in the Bible.

       In the New Testament, Jesus speaks a number of times of a place of eternal torment in the afterlife, such as in the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31 and the story of the sheep and the goats in Matthew 25:31-46.

       For more on why the Bible is written the way it is, using human concepts as metaphors for spiritual realities, please see: How God Speaks in the Bible to Us Boneheads.

       And for more on hell and what it is like, please see: Is There Really a Hell? What is it Like?

       Reply
   • ecopel27gmailcom says:

     February 2, 2016 at 11:44 am

     Hey! I am a Christ follower who pretty much believes the things you listed here. However, what you say is interesting. I have always had a problem with the idea that we just pray a prayer and are saved. Jesus never said that. He wanted followers which in my understanding meant a willingness to obey Him. We follow Him by believing and making Him, Lord. Maybe you think that is not quite right either, but like you, I don’t want to debate. I just want know that I can learn from those who disagree with my ideas.

     Reply
     • Lee says:

       February 2, 2016 at 12:41 pm

       Hi ecopel27,

       Thanks for stopping by, and for your comment. Glad to provide you with some food for thought! And I do agree with you that following Jesus means having a willingness to obey his teachings.

       Reply
   • Daniel says:

     November 23, 2016 at 8:07 am

     How do you explain Ephesians 2:8 ? I think it’s by faith alone, but not the way the common evangelical think. When you have faith in the teaching of Jesus, denying yourself, etc… there’s a change that gives good fruits. And it’s not us who make that change, but I was curious about your thoughts on that part.

     “8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.”

     Reply
     • Lee says:

       November 26, 2016 at 8:18 pm

       Hi Daniel,

       Thanks for stopping by, and for your comment and question.

       Ephesians 2:8–10 has been quoted quite often here, and I’ve commented on it in a number posts and comments. However, since that commentary is scattered and incomplete, I have now written and posted a full article focusing on those verses in Ephesians: “Doesn’t Ephesians 2:8-9 Teach Faith Alone?”

       I hope this article sufficiently answers your question. However, do feel free to continue the conversation in the comments there if you wish.

       Reply
   • PK says:

     July 14, 2018 at 3:24 am

     I find the frequent contrast between “what the Bible teaches” and “human interpretations of the Bible” problematic. I think the Bible itself is a humanly interpreted document. It seems the real problem is to decide between one human interpretation and another rather than between “the Bible” and human interpretations of it.

     Reply
     • Lee says:

       July 14, 2018 at 10:36 am

       Hi PK,

       Certainly there is room for interpretation in many passages of the Bible. However, the Bible is not a blank slate upon which we can write whatever beliefs we happen to favor. Even within its human, culturally-based delivery, the Bible has ongoing themes and teachings that speak for themselves, and require only basic reading comprehension, not interpretation, to understand.

       For example, the commandment to repent from evil and sinful behavior and do good instead is a thread that runs through the entire Bible. And the Bible is explicit in saying that those who refuse to do this will not be saved.

       By contrast, the Bible never once says that we are saved or justified by faith alone, but in fact, explicitly rejects that idea in James 2:24.

       So yes, on some of the more arcane points there is certainly a need for interpreting the Bible. But on the basics of what is required to be saved and go to heaven the Bible is clear as crystal. Only many centuries of “Christianity” ignoring and replacing and “reinterpreting” the Bible has caused people to be so confused about the Bible’s message.

       I encourage you to read some of the articles linked from this one. In particular, please read the series starting with this article:
       The Faulty Foundations of Faith Alone – Part 1: God is a Trinity of Persons?

       God is perfectly capable of giving us a clear message about salvation and eternal life in God’s book, even if it was necessary to deliver it to us through human minds and messengers.

       Reply
   • Lorraine says:

     May 22, 2021 at 7:30 am

     You need to rightly divide the word of truth. Read Corinthians 15:1-4.

     Jesus is our savior. Salvation was achieved in different ways before Jesus died on the cross. If you believe and trust in the gospel you are saved today. If you believe your works saves you, why did Jesus go to the cross. We are commanded to rightly divide the word of truth. Today we are saved by grace, a gift from God if you believe and trust the gospel. If you think works saves you that essentially says yourself and Jesus are the saviors. Not just one savior. Now as Christians we are to do good works to please God. But that is not what saves us. We don’t save ourselves. Jesus did for all sins. Please rightly divide the word of truth and stop preaching doctrine that is not for us today. Paul is our apostle. Jesus when walking the earth came only for the lost sheep of Israel. Salvation was achieved different ways in different times. How could people be saved by Jesus dying on the cross before he died on the cross. Rightly divide the Bible please.

     Reply
     • Lee says:

       May 22, 2021 at 9:05 am

       Hi Lorraine,

       Thank you for stopping by, and for your comment.

       You say, “Jesus when walking the earth came only for the lost sheep of Israel.” This shows that you accept the common Protestant notion that it is not necessary for us to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.

       You are free to believe whatever you want to believe. But if you believe you can ignore the teachings of Christ, please do not call yourself a Christian. See:

       The Christian Church is Not Christian

       Reply
   • Chuck says:

     March 11, 2022 at 10:02 am

     Great post! It has been an argument for me about this. Especially when it comes to parables. Take John 6. We Catholics use this chapter to explain the Eucharist. Jesus was speaking definitively! A lot of non-Catholics think He was speaking allegorically, when He wasn’t. The way you could always tell is when Jesus used the words, “Amen, Amen, I tell you” or “I say to you…” That is how you knew. Parables are designed to bring the teachings of Jesus to a more human level, not to mean a definitive statement.

     Reply
     • Lee says:

       March 12, 2022 at 3:32 am

       Hi Chuck,

       Thanks for stopping by, and for your comment. Glad you enjoyed the post.

       However, I do not agree about Jesus’ words on the Eucharist in John 6. See:

       Eat My Flesh, Drink My Blood

       Jesus was clearly speaking metaphorically, not literally, when he said that we must eat his flesh and drink his blood. The followers who took his words literally were the ones who went away, and did not follow him anymore.

       Jesus quite often says “amen” or “truly I say to you” when he is speaking in parables. For just a few of many examples that could be given, see Matthew 18:10–14; 24:45–51; 25:1–12.

       Meanwhile, Godspeed on your spiritual journey.

       Reply
2. Doug Webber says:

   January 6, 2014 at 7:46 pm

   On Bible inerrancy: we tend to divide things between truth and falsehood, and this particular idea shows up after we made advances in science. I would clarify this a bit more and say, there is the truth, and there are temporary “appearances of truth.” There are several examples where a way of worship is commanded, then later abrogated. Also I would say “a myth is a lie that tells the truth”, but this is a paradox to those who see things in black and white.

   Despite what I just said, I think it should be emphasized that with the Bible, we have had an excellent preservation of the text. Muslims are taught that the Bible was corrupted and that is simply not the case. There are however minor errors – I at first thought the Masoretic text had no error in it, but when I discovered that there was a missing line of text in Ps. 145:13 (which is found in the Septuagint and Dead Sea scrolls), I decided to translate the Psalms. Although we have had an excellent preservation of text, I am simply amazed at the amount of sloppiness in the modern translations. For the most part, they keep copying what the KJV did 400 years ago.

   Reply
   • Lee says:

     January 7, 2014 at 2:28 pm

     Hi Doug,

     Great point about the common focus on the issue of truth vs. falsehood.

     A better and more Biblical focus is on good vs. evil. The Bible is interested in conveying divine truth to us. But it is more interested in conveying divine good, or love, to us, and in combating the evil in and around us.

     When Jesus was asked which was the greatest commandment, his reply was not about truth, belief, or faith, but about love. The apostle Paul said that love is greater than faith and hope.

     Truth is simply a vehicle for delivering love and goodness. The Bible can do an excellent job of that even if . . . no, actually because some of the things it says are not literally true. There is a deeper truth behind those “appearances of truth” that conveys deeper divine love to us ordinary mortals here on earth.

     The very cognitive dissonance of reading things that just don’t seem right causes us to look deeper. Jesus frequently said things that fly in the face of logic and common sense precisely to get his listeners to think more deeply. If the Bible made perfect logical, common sense, we could safely ignore it, and continue to skate along the materialistic surface of life.

     I’m working on a future article that will talk about the divine and human aspects of the Bible, and why both are necessary for the Bible to do its job.

     Update: That article has now been posted:
     How God Speaks in the Bible to Us Boneheads

     Reply
     • Doug Webber says:

       January 7, 2014 at 4:37 pm

       Good point. Actually when we think of it that way, all truth can be regarded as an “appearance.” It is only real when you do it. Similar to book knowledge and then making use of that to do your job.

       Reply
   • Lee says:

     January 7, 2014 at 2:29 pm

     And yes, it is quite amazing how well the Biblical texts are preserved. No, not perfectly. But compared to any other texts of equal antiquity, the level of preservation and accuracy of the text is truly amazing. I can’t help but think that there is something of divine providence in it.

     When I read various loose accusations by atheists and skeptics of a corrupt Biblical text and errors introduced by repeated re-translation, I just think, “Pish posh. These people have no idea what they’re talking about.”

     Of course, many of the underlying stories would have gone through various changes as they were passed down by oral tradition and eventually formulated into a final written form. But once they hit that final written form, they remained remarkably untouched by the ravages of time.

     For our purposes today, what’s important is the text that resulted under the guidance of divine providence, and its ability to convey to us the divine love and wisdom that God wanted to convey to us in a permanent vessel that we know as the Word of God.

     Reply
3. Gus says:

   January 23, 2014 at 5:13 pm

   Faith without good works IS DEAD St. James says this in his letter!

   Reply
   • Lee says:

     January 24, 2014 at 12:34 am

     Yes! Thanks for stopping by, Gus.

     Reply
4. Agbaje, Gideon O. says:

   January 25, 2014 at 4:41 pm

   The historical and spiritual contents in the Bible are undeniable facts that prepares a believer for the heavenly kingdom. The quantification of its accuracy or absolute correctness as measured by human limitation of full description of inspired words does not and could not erase it’s infallibility.
   I’ve read Swedenborg and your work from birth, I can sieve the departure from the simple literal presentation of the bible. I am convinced that divinity and spirituality are not mechanistic, model compliant but dynamic and simply dictated and directed by the Holy spirit.
   Dr Gideon Agbaje.( Nigeria).
   Pastor Woofenden, it’s nice to see you on net

   Reply
   • Lee says:

     January 25, 2014 at 7:26 pm

     Hi Gideon,

     Thanks for stopping by, and for your kind comment, which has definitely set me to thinking!

     When I was a teenager, the Rev. Joseph Agbaje visited us from Nigeria. He gave some wonderful talks on Swedenborg and spiritual rebirth for our gathered group of teens from the United States and Canada. I remember being impressed both with his knowledge and with his great heart and enthusiasm to inspire us with the full meaning of our beliefs. Perhaps you know of him?

     Reply
5. Agbaje, Gideon O. says:

   January 25, 2014 at 10:14 pm

   That’s my father.

   Reply
   • Lee says:

     January 25, 2014 at 10:28 pm

     Then it is truly a special pleasure and honor to meet you! Perhaps one day we will also meet in person.

     Reply
6. Agbaje, Gideon O. says:

   January 25, 2014 at 10:56 pm

   I believe we shall soon meet. Let me know when next you’ll be having a conference. I will like to know whether Rev. Dr Harvey (Urbana College) is still alive?

   Reply
   • Lee says:

     January 25, 2014 at 11:35 pm

     Dr. Harvey died peacefully in 2010 at the age of 87. I’ll send you some more information by email.

     Reply
7. Joshua says:

   March 6, 2014 at 1:17 pm

   Hi Lee,

   The second topic you posted: We are saved by Faith alone. I would definitely agree that the Bible never specifically mentions this, and that James is very clear in Chapter 2 verse 24. However the teaching I have had is that once you accept Christ and place your Faith in Him for your salvation, the Holy Spirit does a miraculous work in your heart. This change, changes the natural desires of your heart to the desires and characteristics of God. Therefore, after believing in faith the change that has occurred in your heart will propel you to do good works. Once you have been transformed by the gospel, you become like the gospel. No person that has been genuinely changed by God through faith in Christ could possibly keep living a life of selfishness, natural desires, and indifference to others. I think that James was trying to point out there are genuine believers and non-genuine believers. Non-genuine would be those who say with their mouth that they have placed their faith in Christ but have no obvious works to back up their “proclaimed” faith. Just wondering your thoughts?

   Reply
   • Lee says:

     March 7, 2014 at 6:00 pm

     Hi Joshua,

     Thanks for your thoughtful comment. I do understand that this is a common view among Protestant and Evangelical Christians. And I think it is okay as far as it goes.

     As you can see from the lack of articles linked at the end of the section on faith alone, I have yet to write any articles on that subject for this website. God willing, I will get to that all in due time. It is an important issue in Christianity. Meanwhile, I’ll offer a few thoughts in response to your comment.

     First, although this view of salvation does generally come from the segments of Christianity that subscribe to faith alone, it is not actually faith alone. It is faith with works. It’s simply that the faith comes first, followed by the works. Although in the end and in importance, love and works are actually greater than faith in contributing to our salvation (see the Bible verses referred to in the article), it is true that faith is the gate through which we first pass into Christian life and salvation. If we didn’t first have faith in Jesus, how could we accept his teachings and do his commandments? So although the view you describe still emphasizes faith over works, and is thus based more on Paul than on the Lord’s own teachings, I believe it does have some basic truth underlying it.

     Second, I simply have to point out that this view, also, is not explicitly taught and spelled out in the Bible. It, too, is a human interpretation. And though I do think it is closer to Biblical teaching, and has elements of Biblical teaching in it, it still strikes me as a human attempt to justify a teaching (faith alone) that is specifically denied by the Bible.

     Third, I agree that faith leads to transformation of our whole being. This, and not some mere intellectual or verbal assent to some doctrine about salvation through the blood of Jesus, is what Paul really meant by “faith.” However, I would also say that this does not happen instantaneously. Many people who go through the “born again” experience think they will be instantly transformed from devils into angels. But the devil is subtle, and continues to battle using the lower part of our nature. Being born again through faith in Jesus is only the start of the process of our becoming “new creations” in Christ. The work of Christ in us to transform us into new creations continues for the rest of our lives. We should not get complacent and think that just because we are “born again” and “saved,” we have no more work to do.

     Finally–and perhaps this is a bit repetitive–it is a mistake to attempt to support and shore up a doctrine that the Bible does not teach. Put bluntly, the doctrine of salvation by faith alone is a false, non-Biblical teaching that came, not from the Word of God, but from human theologians who lived over a thousand years after the Bible was written. The Bible teaches very clearly, in many, many passages, that we must do good works in order to be saved. This has nothing to do with “meriting” salvation or “boasting” about our goodness. Throughout the entire Bible, in both the Old Testament and the New Testament, God commands us to love and serve our neighbors, and to do good works for them. And we cannot be saved if we disobey the commandments of God.

     Reply
     • Jerid Maddox says:

       March 26, 2018 at 8:24 pm

       I know this is an old comment, but I DID in an instant go from being a selfish, egotistical, materialistic person to being born again, with no desire to sin, no desire for wealth, no desire to impress others, etc. I was not a church goer when it happened. It was a spiritual experience like Swedenborgs, where I felt connected to God and the infinite universe and had a fleeting moment where I understood EVERYTHING. It changed me forever. It was that experience that led me to find out about Swedenborg just last week. I feel I have been guided by the Holy Spirit ever since. I can sense His presence at times. Right after my spiritual moment, I felt like “religion and churches were doing it all wrong” and that I knew something that no one else knew. However, I have settled down in a church now and follow the teachings there. I don’t know if I will ever know what Gods plan was for me when I changed, but I’m just here to say that in ky case it WAS instant (and not a near death experience, or brought on by stress or meditation.)

       Reply
       • Lee says:

         March 27, 2018 at 12:05 pm

         Hi Jerid,

         Thanks for stopping by and telling your story. I certainly don’t mean to deny that people can and do go through transformative experiences that quickly change the direction of their lives. Your own experience, not to mention Paul’s famous “road to Damascus” experience in the Bible, attest to this reality, even if that is not how it happens for most people.

         What I would say is that God was working on you to prepare the way even before this happened, and that since you’re still here on earth, you still have work to do on your life and spirit. If nothing else, there will be issues from your past life as a “selfish, egotistical, materialistic person” that you’ll need to do some clean-up work on. And old parts of ourselves have a way of rearing their ugly head at times when we don’t expect it.

         It sounds as though this experience happened fairly recently. If so, I do hope that the transformation sticks, and that you are able to carry it forward for the rest of your life. Changes and events happen that can challenge us even when we’re on God’s path and walking in the light of the Lord. And I hope that your discovery of Swedenborg and the articles at this website will provide you even more light as you walk your path toward God and heaven.

8. Naomi says:

   April 30, 2014 at 7:29 pm

   Thank you Lee,

   I am an Evangelical Pastor’s daughter. I am also 35 years old. 3 years ago I started to ask myself questions about God and my Religion ….and what I really believed. Summary: I didn’t believe that the God I was serving was that unloving, judgmental, harsh and confusing! What I felt deep within my spirit with all certainty is that He Is and that He is Love.

   I have had a somewhat painful journey since then. I came upon the writings of Swendenborg. (Who my father thinks is a heretic). Truthfully after reading some of his work, I have for the first time felt a genuine freedom in my spirit and a clear understanding of the phrase/verse
   ” Perfect love casts out all fear”.

   Your site and this article about the Bible has helped me a lot as I am now trying to reconcile how I should view, read and interpret the Bible as a result of my changing beliefs. I have not had the strength to tell anyone that what I now believe in my heart . I am praying that I be guided by the Spirit of the Lord.

   I sincerely appreciate your work. I desire to truly know Him and be like Him above all else.

   Naomi

   Reply
   • Lee says:

     May 1, 2014 at 12:19 am

     Hi Naomi,

     Thanks for stopping by, and for your kind and thoughtful words. It does sound like you’re in a difficult situation. And yet, a new light is dawning! I appreciate your courage in stepping forward.

     What I find most beautiful in Swedenborg’s teachings about God and the Bible is that they offer a God who truly is love, just as the Apostle John said (1 John 4:8, 16). Yes, there are also harsher pictures of God in the Bible. Yet all of these Swedenborg beautifully elevates so that we can still believe in a God of pure love and pure wisdom. Any set of beliefs that sees God as harsh, judgmental, angry, and condemnatory of the vast bulk of humankind just does not ring true for me.

     Unfortunately, the people in the church that you came from will probably never understand the changing beliefs that you are now journeying toward–unless they, on their own, begin to question their current beliefs just as you did. If you tell them what you now believe in your heart while they are still engaged in their current beliefs, they will only attack your newfound beliefs, and try to bring you back into their fold. As painful as it may be, you will probably have to form a new circle of spiritual family and friends to support you and share in your journey with the Lord from now on.

     Please know that no matter what your family and friends from the church you grew up in may say to you, you are not abandoning the Lord, you are not abandoning the Bible, and you are certainly not on the slippery slope to hell. There are greater depths to the Bible, and there is greater love and beauty in the Lord, than those particular Christians can see while they are still holding onto their old, narrow, and outdated beliefs.

     It is a difficult journey from the judgmental view of God common in Evangelical and Fundamentalist Christianity to a more spiritual and loving view of God. My thoughts and prayers are with you on that journey. If you have any questions along the way, please don’t hesitate to ask. I’ll do my best to respond as time permits.

     Reply
   • Doug Webber says:

     May 7, 2014 at 9:40 am

     Welcome Naomi, to the New Church. It will probably take a bit of time to absorb all the information, but your reply reminds me of the time I first stumbled upon Swedenborg in the library, after going through a similar “crisis of faith” or period of doubt. I can first recommend “True Christian Religion.”

     Reply
9. Naomi says:

   May 3, 2014 at 11:38 am

   Thank you Lee for taking the time to respond and also for your encouraging words. I understand the need for me to build a new support system to help me along my new path. I am going to do this….and from time to time pop to be part of your discussions.

   Reply
   • Lee says:

     May 3, 2014 at 12:25 pm

     Hi Naomi,

     You’re welcome here any time.

     Reply
10. Lara says:

    May 9, 2014 at 11:53 am

    Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV

    For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

    Reply
    • biomedee says:

      May 9, 2014 at 1:11 pm

      Hi Lara, I am sure Lee can have a take on that passage, but in general the early Christian letters such as Ephesians relate to activities of that era/time and not on own internal spiritual development. Sometimes they may relate to discourse of the times and as such they aren’t really something to look to today. I hope that helps.

      Reply
    • Lee says:

      May 9, 2014 at 1:29 pm

      Hi Lara,

      Thanks for stopping by, and for your comments.

      In reading Paul’s letters, as in reading the rest of the Bible, it is important to pay attention to his exact words, and to understand the meaning of the words as Paul uses them, in order not to make mistakes in our understanding of his teachings about salvation.

      In Ephesians 2:8, Paul says that we are saved by grace, through faith.

      The Greek word for “grace” here is the one from which we get our English word “charity.” It means favor, kindness, goodwill, and practical, active love.

      Up to this point, Ephesians chapter 2 has been talking about how we were formerly dead in our sins, but have now been saved through God’s grace. In other words, even though we were actively violating God’s commandments and living from selfishness and greed instead of from love and kindness, God still loved us, and from that love desired to save us.

      The main point of the verse is that we are saved by God’s love, kindness, and favor toward us, without our deserving it at all. Really, we are saved neither by faith nor by works, but by God’s love. It is God who saves us, out of God’s infinite love.

      This happens through faith, because if we do not have faith in God–which for Christians means faith in Jesus–we will continue to reject God’s love and God’s commandments. We will continue to live from greed and selfishness rather than from God’s love. And as long as we do that, we are still “dead through our trespasses and sins” (Ephesians 2:1).

      This verse does not say we are saved by faith, but through faith. Faith is not what saves us; rather, faith is the door or gate through which we must pass in order to accept the salvation that comes purely from God’s grace–meaning from God’s infinite, tender love and care for us.

      For a little more on this, see the section titled “Believing in Jesus Christ leads to salvation” in the companion piece, Christian Beliefs that the Bible Does Teach.

      Reply
    • Lee says:

      May 9, 2014 at 2:05 pm

      Hi Lara,

      Ephesians 2:9 says that our salvation is “not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

      In understanding what Paul means here, first it is important to realize that by “works” he usually means “the works of the Law.” And by “the Law” he means the ancient Jewish ritual laws of sacrifice, cleansing, diet, and other prescribed ritual behavior as found especially in the book of Leviticus, but also generally in the Hebrew Torah (“Law”), which is the first five books of the Bible.

      That’s why, when Paul talks about the Law, he often talks about “circumcision” and “uncircumcision”–as he does later in Ephesians 2 (see verse 11). “Circumcision” is a reference to those who follow the Jewish ritual law, which required all boys to be circumcised when they were eight days old. Circumcision was a sign of their being part of the Jewish covenant with God, just as baptism is a sign of Christians being a part of the new, Christian covenant with God.

      It’s important to understand that Paul was engaged in a major doctrinal battle with the Jewish Christians in Jerusalem, who thought that it was still necessary to obey the Jewish ritual law even though they were now Christians. Paul, the “apostle to the Gentiles” (non-Jews), argued strenuously in his letters that this was not necessary: that Christ’s sacrifice on the cross replaced the Jewish law of animal sacrifice and other ritual behavior, so that Christians no longer need to follow the Jewish Law.

      Today, we take it for granted that Christians do not have to follow the Jewish ritual law. So it’s easy to miss the point Paul was making about works vs. faith. He did not mean we don’t have to do what today we call good works: loving and serving our neighbor as God commands us. (See Paul’s own statement about this in Romans 2:5-11.) Rather, he meant that we no longer have to obey the law of “circumcision,” meaning the Jewish ritual law.

      This was a matter of boasting for many religious Jews in that day and age. To really understand what Paul meant about boasting because of works, consider this parable of Jesus:

      He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous and regarded others with contempt: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, was praying thus, ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people: thieves, rogues, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give a tenth of all my income.’ But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even look up to heaven, but was beating his breast and saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his home justified rather than the other; for all who exalt themselves will be humbled, but all who humble themselves will be exalted.” (Luke 18:9-14)

      It was very common then–and still is today–for people who scrupulously observe the laws of their religion to become puffed up with pride, and look down on everyone else who is not as “righteous” as they are. This sort of boasting for our “works” (meaning our superficial adherence to a set of religious ritual and behavioral laws) will not save us.

      That is the main point Paul is making in Ephesians 2:8.

      As I said in my previous comment, really we are saved neither by our faith nor by our works. We are saved purely by God’s grace, or God’s love for us.

      However, faith is the gateway through which we come to accept God’s grace. And love and kindness toward others are the way in which God’s grace works through us. If we do not have both faith and good deeds (not mere ritual observance of some religious law), we are not saved because we have not accepted God’s grace, God’s love, and God’s commandments into our hearts, minds, and lives.

      For Jesus’ own clear statement about who will be saved and who will not, see Matthew 25:31-46.

      Reply
      • Jay Shepherd says:

        October 17, 2014 at 12:49 am

        Greetings. Interesting article. I haven’t had the chance to read all of the comments, so I appolgize if this has been discussed already. You note here that “Paul, the “apostle to the Gentiles” (non-Jews), argued strenuously in his letters that this was not necessary: that Christ’s sacrifice on the cross replaced the Jewish law of animal sacrifice and other ritual behavior, so that Christians no longer need to follow the Jewish Law.”

        A significant element of the law involved atonement sacrifices for sin. So, in Jesus’ death the sin atonement sacrifice was replaced, effectively meaning Jesus Christ died for our sins, correct? The purpose of Jesus’ sacrifice was not so we could have a more convenient life without the law and rituals, but to be a worthy attonement, to reconcile man with God.

        While I respect your point of view, I feel as though it is splitting very fine hairs. Your stream of logic as it appears to me is: the Bible does not specifically say Jesus died to atone for our sins, but he replaced the attonement sacrifice, which atoned sins (the innocent paying the penalty for the guilty).

        Maybe you should comment on the attonement laws?

        Reply
        • Lee says:

          October 17, 2014 at 10:29 am

          Hi Jay,

          Thanks for your comment and questions.

          For some of the answers to your questions, please read this article:
          Did Jesus Really Die to Pay the Penalty for our Sins?!?
          The discussion afterwards digs into some more of the Bible verses often quoted to support the mistaken and non-Biblical idea that Christ paid the penalty for our sins.

          I hope in the future to write an article that looks more specifically at the meaning of Jesus dying for our sins. It’s a big topic, and I can’t do it justice here. However, just a few points for now:

          First, in the Old Testament, sacrifices did not involve “the innocent paying the penalty for the guilty.” Rather, the guilty person brought a sacrifice to atone for his or her own sins. The priests also periodically offered sacrifices for the sin of the people as a whole.

          Though these offerings could be thought of as a payment for sin, it is not presented that way in the Bible text. The sense is more that it was a way of making things right with God. The very act of making the offering involved the guilty person or people recognizing that they had sinned against God, and formalizing that admission of guilt with a ritual of offering something to God to symbolize repentance and a commitment not to repeat that sin.

          And bear in mind that this was largely for unintentional sin (see, for example, Leviticus 4, on sin offerings, where “unintentionally” would more literally be translated “through ignorance”). A person who sinned knowingly and intentionally was to be punished for that sin. But for those who mistakenly did something wrong, the ritual of sacrifice pointed out publicly the wrong that had been done so that it would be known to be a sin from then on, and would not be repeated.

          Second, I can’t repeat often enough that the Bible never says Jesus paid the price or penalty for our sin. This is not splitting hairs. It is a major issue of non-Biblical doctrine. If that’s what the Bible had meant, then in at least one place it would have said it, and said it clearly. But it never says it at all.

          We really shouldn’t even be having this conversation, because it involves debating a teaching that simply isn’t found in the Bible.

          So although I understand that there is some confusion and lack of clarity about what it means that Jesus’ life and his death on the cross replaced the ancient Jewish sacrifices, one thing it shouldn’t mean is something that the Bible never says it means.

          As for what it does mean, that has more to do with the sense of the Old Testament sacrifices of making things right with God through a recognition of wrong behavior and a commitment not to repeat that wrong behavior. Christ becomes the sacrifice in the sense that Christ’s death at the hands of corrupt and evil humans provides a picture of all the wrongs we humans do to God and to one another, lifts them up publicly, and provides us a way to no longer commit those evils and sins.

          And as the Bible does say over and over again, this can happen only by repenting from our sins (see, for example, Luke 13:1-5; Revelation 2:5) and becoming a new person. We cannot do this on our own because by ourselves we do not have the power to do anything at all (John 15:5). But with the power of Christ, we can become “new creations” (2 Corinthians 5:17) who no longer engage in evil and sin, and are therefore no longer subject to the "wages of death" that are attached to sin (Romans 6:23).

          Short version: Christ’s life and death is about taking away the sin of the world (John 1:29), not about paying the penalty for the sin of the world. Once the sin is taken away, the penalty no longer applies.

          So whatever Christ as atoning sacrifice means, it is about taking away our sins. And the Gospels tell us how that happens: through faith in Jesus, repentance from sins, and being reborn to a new life in Christ’s image.

        • Lee says:

          October 17, 2014 at 10:35 am

          P.S. See also my response to Manual just below, which takes up a few more of these questions.

        • Doug Webber says:

          October 17, 2014 at 12:24 pm

          Hello Jay,
          How Protestants and Catholics interpret the ancient Jewish atonement laws is according to their current doctrines: that this was an example of “vicarious atonement” that was ultimately fulfilled not with the ritual, but with Jesus.

          The spiritual symbolism of these Jewish rituals are explained in a different manner in Swedenborg’s writings, and he offers details that even Jewish rabbis do not know, and he states that not even the Jews at the time knew the full significance of the rituals which is different from the Protestant and Catholic views. It would take too long to go through them all here. But essentially the reason why the blood was separated and drained from the animal, and then the flesh burned on the altar, signifies separating one’s lower natural fleshly desires (repentance) from the spiritual life of good which comes from God (the blood). I am oversimplifying it but that is the general idea.

          So, sin does not get removed except through repentance. Then, the question arises, why the sacrifice of Jesus? By the time he came all of humanity was becoming separated from heaven, and God’s spirit could not flow in for us to do any good and become one with Him. Jehovah took on a mortal body, resisted sin in that body, thereby attacking all the evil spirits of hell. When he made his body Divine, now his spirit can flow again in all of us. When we make the effort to repent, that is effected by Jesus working within us. The spiritual symbolism of “blood” is the Divine truth which flows from Jesus into us, for it is by truth sin can be resisted.

          It is a different theology than Protestants or Catholics, but in reality, it is closer to the ancient theology of the Christian Church, and is still followed by the Orthodox Church. Unfortunately they don’t explain it well to the west. You won’t hear about it because generally this teaching will get censored in Christian forums (which just happened again to one of my posts).

      • Jay Shepherd says:

        October 17, 2014 at 5:38 pm

        Lee,

        I don’t want to seem argumentative, I just want to explore this topic with you. If we are to look into technicality, the atonement sacrifice was for sins that people did out of ignorance (in case I did something that would offend God and I didn’t know it).

        I don’t personally believe that by making the sacrifice, the sin did out of ignorance would be made known. Slaughtering an animal does not reveal to me anything I have done against God’s will, but simply acknowledges that there is unknown sin in my life. It was a failsafe way to atone for sins.

        Speaking strictly about sins that one could do that does not have the death penalty, this sacrifice “cost” the person something valuable. Maybe their best, spotless animal? I believe this was done to teach the Israelites that sin costs something. Transgression requires retribution, or payment.

        If I damage your property in ignorance, I should send you a check. God is saying even sins you do in ignorance requires payment.

        Taking this into account, and if we agree that Jesus’ crucifixion served to replace, or do away with the need for the atonement sacrifice, then one could in fact say that his crucifixion “paid” the requirement, or “price” of these types of sin. It is very well covered in the Bible that Jesus is the Lamb of God, the sacrifice, the payment for the cost of atonement, and atonement costs people their property in sacrifice.

        Considering this, if we can agree that Jesus’ sacrifice paid for atonement sins, you have stated that His sacrifice has also done away with death penalty sins. In short, if Jesus paid the bill for me, but also worked to remove the overages, I would thank him for paying my bills, which otherwise would consequently result in my lights being cut off (the penalty).

        The idea that our works bring salvation is something I disagree with too, as this would mean that Jesus’ sacrifice would simply replace another system of atonement/salvation that did not work for humanity. Works are the result of true salvation in Jesus Messiah, not a means of obtaining salvation.

        Faith is trusting in Jesus that He has paid the penalty for your sins, so that you can, because you love Him, grow in works that glorify God. As we grow, we make mistakes, (see scripture on anointing with oil in James, especially the part about “and if they have any sin”—referring to believers), but Jesus’ sacrifice has removed the penalty of these mistakes.

        In your article, you mention the outrage the community would feel about letting the prisoner go. But was that not what Jesus did when the woman caught in adultery was about to be stoned to death? He simply let her go, and told her not to pursue sin no more. She didn’t go through a “get over sexual immorality in 10 steps” program. She encountered Jesus first, and her works after that should reflect the encounter. She was freed from the penalty to pursues the good works with grace.

        I believe one needs to trust in God’s involvement through Jesus in a regenerated person’s life, that their old ways will take a lifetime of development to fully drop off. My works of righteousness are driven by my love for Jesus, not that I am trying to make it to heaven with them, but to glorify the one who paid my way to heaven. Yeshua is “God is salvation”, not my works. My works point to the salvation within me.

        Reply
        • Lee says:

          October 17, 2014 at 6:37 pm

          Hi Jay,

          Thanks for the follow-up.

          The sacrifices performed annually on the Day of Atonement, described in Leviticus 16, do seem to have been at least partially to provide a sort of “blanket coverage” for all the sins that the community and anyone in it may have committed during the year, whether or not they ever became aware of them.

          However, that is not what Leviticus 4:1-5:13, which is the main section on sacrifices for sin, is talking about. It is talking about unintentional sins that become known. On this, see Leviticus 4:14, 23, 28; 5:2-5. The same goes for the guilt offerings covered in Leviticus 5:14-6:7.

          It was when the sin became known that a sacrifice was required. This means that when individuals or groups made a sacrifice for sin, they did it with an awareness of the sin committed, and the sacrifice was a recognition of that awareness of sin and guilt.

        • Lee says:

          October 17, 2014 at 7:14 pm

          Now about sins requiring payment, some of them did. However, that was a distinct issue from the sacrifice, and the payment usually had to do with real, physical damage done to a fellow human being. There were laws of restitution that required people who stole or damaged a neighbor’s property to pay back the loss with extra. See, for example, Exodus 22:1-14.

          For sins against God requiring a sacrifice, though, I’m not aware of any place where it speaks of a penalty being paid.

          Unfortunately, even some well-respected translations, such as the NRSV and the NIV seem to have been infected with Penal Substitution theology, and have translated as “penalty” a word that should be translated “guilt offering.” This is the case, for example, in Leviticus 5:6-7, where the word “penalty” occurs in those translations. The KJV does not make this mistake. For a more accurate translation, see Young’s Literal Translation of those verses.

          These mistranslations of the Bible may make it seem as if the sacrifices were considered penalties. But as I say, I’m not aware of any place in the Bible that actually says this when properly translated.

          Yes, it’s true that making a sacrifice for a sin would have cost the individual or groups offering it the equivalent of money in today’s terms. In those days, people’s wealth was often measured by the size of their flocks and herds. However, thinking of the sacrifices in that way is a modern market-economy-driven reinterpretation of something that functioned very differently in the ancient societies that practiced animal sacrifice.

          Until temple worship became corrupted and an economy grew up around it–which Jesus condemned in the incident of the clearing of the temple–ancient peoples who practiced animal sacrifice just didn’t think of it in terms of economics, restitution, and penalties. They thought of it as a way to make themselves right with God when they had broken one of God’s commandments.

          That was what “atonement” was all about. It was not about paying a price for sins. It was about obtaining forgiveness for sins by admitting guilt through a ritual act. Then, when guilt was admitted and the proper sacrifice was made, God, who was merciful, would forgive the sin.

          It’s difficult for us today to comprehend how the sacrifices functioned in the minds of those ancient people. We live in a money-driven economy, and we tend to think of everything in terms of value and price. It’s not that these things were absent from ancient cultures. It’s just that they didn’t think of their relationship with God as a financial transaction. So the whole idea that sacrifices involved paying a penalty for sin is an anachronism. It’s a projection of present-day cultural attitudes back into a culture in which coined money as we know it today didn’t even exist yet.

          Now, if you can find any passages in the Old Testament that actually (in a proper translation) talk about sacrifices as paying a penalty for sin, I would like to see them. I’ve searched the New Testament quite thoroughly, and haven’t found any passages at all that speak of Christ paying the penalty for our sin. I believe the same is true of sacrifices in the Old Testament. But it’s a big book, and maybe I’ve missed something.

          So far, though, I simply haven’t found any such language in the Bible. It’s definitely not in the New Testament, and I’m fairly certain it’s not in the Old Testament either.

        • Lee says:

          October 17, 2014 at 7:30 pm

          Hi Jay,

          Following up on my previous comment:

          You said:

          It is very well covered in the Bible that Jesus is the Lamb of God, the sacrifice, the payment for the cost of atonement . . .

          I’m with you right up to the part about Jesus being “the payment for the cost of atonement.” You say this is “very well covered in the Bible” . . . but where is it covered in the Bible at all?

          I haven’t found a single passage in the Bible that says anything about Jesus’ death on the cross being the payment, penalty, or price for the cost of atonement.

          Have you?

        • Jay Shepherd says:

          October 18, 2014 at 1:35 am

          Hello again.
          To answer your final question, I could find multiple scriptures that support the concept of Jesus’ sacrifice serving as payment for our sins. But I can see that our interpretations of scripture is probably too different to discuss this.

          I too utilize young’s literal translation quite a bit. Romans 4:25Young’s Literal Translation (YLT)

          25 who was delivered up because of our offences, and was raised up because of our being declared righteous.

          There is a wealth of unmerited favor detailed in the new covenant that separates it from being like the old covenant. But in order for us to discuss this further, we would need a shared view of interpretation to draw from. The above sentence to me states that because we were guilty of sin, he was delivered to death, and was raised up because we were declared righteous, which is to show that Jesus has power over the penalty that was due us. We must die, but we can return to life through him. He was delivered because of our offenses, is synonymous with he paid (was sent to death) for our offenses (sin).

          I’ve enjoyed this discussion with you. Take care.

        • Lee says:

          October 18, 2014 at 8:38 am

          Hi Jay,

          Thanks for engaging in this discussion.

          I understand that there are differing interpretations of Scripture, and that some valid beliefs do require interpretation.

          However, my question is very simple: Are there any passages at all in the Bible that actually say that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins?

          If nothing else, I hope that from this conversation you will consider the impact of the fact that there is no such statement anywhere in the Bible. I hope you will consider the reality that it requires human interpretation to come to that conclusion.

          If the Bible doesn’t actually teach a particular doctrine, but it requires human interpretation to arrive at it, can it really be considered a basic, essential doctrine of Christianity?

          Would the Bible really not say clearly something that is required for our salvation? Would the Bible leave to human interpretation something that makes the difference between eternal life and eternal death?

          I don’t think so.

          That is why I cannot accept the doctrine that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins.

          It’s very simple. Nowhere in the Bible–not in a single verse–does it ever say that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins. And God would not leave something that important out of the plain words of Scripture.

        • Lee says:

          October 18, 2014 at 9:04 am

          Hi Jay,

          Although the Bible does not teach that Jesus died to pay the penalty for our sins, there are basic Christian beliefs that it does teach, and that we can depend upon for our salvation because they are right there in the plain words of Scripture.

          For example, Jesus, John the Baptist, and Jesus’ disciples all call on us to repent so that our sins can be forgiven, and they teach that if we do not repent, we will die. See, for example, Matthew 4:17; Mark 1:4; Luke 3:7–9; Luke 13:1–5; Luke 24:44–48; Acts 2:38; 5:29–32.

          For another example, there are many passages both in the Old Testament and in the New Testament stating that we must do good deeds for our neighbor, and that if we do not, we will die. See, for example, Isaiah 1:16–17; Ezekiel 18:5–9; Matthew 22:36–40; Matthew 25:31–46; Luke 3:7–9; Romans 2:5–11.

          For more Christian teachings that are in the Bible, see the companion article to this one:
          Christian Beliefs that the Bible Does Teach

11. manual says:

    July 10, 2014 at 6:05 am

    Hello Lee,

    What is the meaning of following scripture from the bible……. Bible is very very clear – Jesus died to pay the penalty for our sins.

    Romans 5:6-10 says, “For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His love toward us, in that, while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life”. Such wonderful love for God and Christ to have paid our penalty.

    Peter 3:18, “For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God.”

    John 14:6 says, “Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: No man comes to the Father except through Me.”

    Acts 4:12, “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

    I Peter 2:24, “Who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness: by whose stripes you were healed.” Jesus has personally paid the price for our sins, so that we can be made righteous before God. When a person is made righteous, by obeying God’s plan to save man, God will then save him.

    Romans 3:22-24

    22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[a] who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

    In Matthew 20:17-19 we read, “Now Jesus, going up to Jerusalem, took the twelve disciples aside on the road and said to them, Behold we go up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and to the scribes; and they will condemn Him to death, and deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and to scourge and to crucify. And the third day He will rise again”. Christ went there willingly to die for us.

    Thanks
    Manual Jeyapaul

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      July 10, 2014 at 11:32 am

      Hi Manual,

      Thanks for your comment and question, and for the Bible passages.

      I agree with you that Christ went to Jerusalem willingly to die for us. If he had not done that, we would all be dead in our sins.

      However, none of the passages you have quoted says that he paid the penalty for our sins. Please read each passage carefully, paying attention to every word. You will see that the words “penalty,” “price,” and “paid” simply aren’t there.

      If the Bible had meant to say that Christ paid the penalty for our sins, there would be at least one passage in which it actually says that. But there is not a single verse in the entire Bible that says anything about Jesus paying the penalty for our sins.

      I realize it may be upsetting to discover that the Bible does not teach something you have taken as basic Christian belief. However, the Bible itself must have the final word.

      Here is what the passages you have quoted do say:
      “Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:8)
      “Christ also suffered once for sins.” (Peter 3:18)
      Christ “bore our sins in His own body on the tree.” (1 Peter 2:24)

      1 Peter 2:24 goes on to say that this was so “that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness.” In other words, because Christ died for us, suffered for our sins, and bore our sins, we, too, can die to sins so that we are no longer sinners, but instead live for righteousness through the power of Christ working in us.

      The first passage you quote, Romans 5:6-10, gives an idea of what it means to “die for our sins.” It speaks of how people may die for a righteous person or a good person, but Christ died for us when we were sinners, meaning we were unrighteous and evil people.

      As an example of what this is talking about, a good soldier will willingly die to protect good and innocent people who are being attacked by an enemy. But the soldier would be much less willing to die to protect criminals or tyrants who have done unrighteous and evil things that provoked their enemies to attack them. However, Jesus was willing to fight and die for all people, even unrighteous sinners.

      Jesus died for us, suffered for sins, and bore our sins in the sense that he bore in his body and soul the vicious assaults of the combined power human evil, the Devil, and hell, and conquered it at the cost of his own pain, suffering, and death. To use the Bible’s language, he broke the power of the Devil, who holds the power of death (see Hebrews 2:14), and in that way saved us from death and hell. If we believe in him and follow his commandments, he will break the power of death, sin, and the Devil in us also, so that we are no longer sinners, and no longer draw the wages of sin, which is death (see Romans 6:23).

      Before too long I hope to write an article with a fuller explanation of what it means that Jesus bore our sins, suffered for our sins, and died for our sins.

      For now, please re-read the passages you have quoted, and the entire New Testament. You will see, if you pay close attention, that there is not a single passage anywhere in the entire Bible that says that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins. It just isn’t there. And if the Bible doesn’t say it, how can it be a part of basic Christian belief?

      I also invite you to read these two articles, which offer more on what the Bible does and doesn’t say about the salvation that comes to us through Jesus Christ:
      Did Jesus Really Die to Pay the Penalty for our Sins?!?
      Who is God? Who is Jesus Christ? What about that Holy Spirit?

      Reply
12. Doug Webber says:

    July 10, 2014 at 12:38 pm

    The other problem here is many people read the Bible and think that “faith” is synonymous with “belief.” It is not. Faith is acting and living by the truth that you know. If you believe one way and act another way that is not faith. Thus James said that the devils believe, and tremble. Or as Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

    Also, the other word that is misinterpreted here is “grace.” Many theologians have told their congregations that it means “unmerited favor.” It does not mean that – it simply means “favor” – the theologians added “unmerited” to the definition to support their theology. And such a theology ignores the passages in the OT and NT where everyone will be judged by….their works! In Matt. 25 God did not care for those who believed one way and acted another.

    That said, works done for sake of self-gain are hypocritical works, whereas works done out of love are done just out of sheer happiness or desire of doing good to others. All actions are judged by intent. If the intention is self-love or glorification of self, its not a good work. Works done out of love acknowledge that God is the source of all love.

    And to complicate the letters of Paul further, he sometimes uses “works” to refer to the works of the rituals of the Mosaic law and has nothing to do with works done out of love.

    So, its an easy mistake to make, and those who grew up in Protestant churches will have this mindset as scripture is interpreted through Protestant doctrine. I certainly did, it took me a while to recognize the error.

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      July 10, 2014 at 7:19 pm

      Hi Doug,

      Thanks for some good thoughts, with which I do agree.

      In particular, I agree that “faith” has often been badly misunderstood. Faith means what we actually live by. If we don’t live by it, then we don’t really even believe it, let alone have faith in it.

      I would say that Paul commonly uses “works” to refer to the works of the rituals of the Mosaic Law. When he does so, he sometimes, but not always, modifies it by specifying “the works of the Law.”

      Sometimes he makes his meaning clear by referring to “circumcision,” which is sort of a code word for abiding by the Mosaic ritual code. Circumcision was the Jews’ ritual of initiation (for males) into being an observant Jew, so it came to mean obeying the Law of Moses as a whole.

      Sometimes, though, Paul does use “works” to mean what we mean by them today: doing good deeds. We have to pay attention to the context in order to understand which way he is using the term.

      Unfortunately, present-day Christians are generally unaware of the context in which Paul wrote his letters and made his arguments. He was debating the Jewish Christians in Jerusalem, who believed that Christians must still obey most, if not all, of the Jewish ritual law as found it the Torah, or Law–which is the first five books of the Old Testament: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

      When Paul’s letters are yanked out of their historical context, much of what he says makes no sense, and it sounds like he contradicts himself from one chapter and one sentence to the next. But if we realize the context in which he wrote them, and the different ways he uses the word “works,” everything becomes much clearer.

      The short version is that Paul, like all of the other Apostles, taught that we must do good works in order to be saved. But he strenuously objected to the idea that Christians must observe the “works of the Law” of Moses regarding circumcision, sacrifice, diet, ritual cleansing, and so on. Once we understand this, it becomes much easier to understand most of what he wrote.

      Reply
13. jazeril says:

    October 5, 2014 at 7:54 am

    so you don’t believe in Jesus Christ as your savior?

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      October 5, 2014 at 8:47 am

      Hi jazeril,

      Thanks for stopping by, and for your question.

      I am a Christian. I believe in Jesus Christ as my Savior.

      However, the salvation that Jesus Christ accomplished did not happen the way many traditional Christians believe it did. As pointed out in the above article, many of those beliefs simply aren’t in the Bible, even though millions of Christians are taught from childhood that they are. That’s what makes it so difficult for many Christians to see what the Bible really teaches.

      For some basics that the Bible does teach, see the article:
      Christian Beliefs that the Bible Does Teach

      For a fuller explanation of who Jesus Christ is and how he redeemed and saved the world and all people of good will, see the article:
      Who is God? Who is Jesus Christ? What about that Holy Spirit?

      Reply
14. joe lee says:

    October 7, 2014 at 1:01 pm

    I think that one should not confuse love with charity.

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      October 7, 2014 at 1:43 pm

      Hi Joe,

      Thanks for stopping by, and for your comment.

      Love and charity are certainly closely related, to the extent that the Greek word for “charity” is often translated as “love.”

      What do you see as the difference, and why is that difference important?

      Reply
15. Ken says:

    November 14, 2014 at 1:11 pm

    Lee, you’re quite a scholar. However, so-called Christianity isn’t about what you know, but who you know.

    The only people who are reconciled to God are those who are perfect. The only people who go to Heaven are those who are perfect.

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      November 14, 2014 at 1:40 pm

      Hi Ken,

      Thanks for your comment, and for your compliment.

      However, slogans are no substitute for what the Bible teaches.

      Where in the Bible does it say that Christianity isn’t about what you know, but who you know?

      Jesus says that the most important commandments in the Bible are to love God above all and love our neighbor as ourselves. It’s not about what you know or who you know, but what you do based on who and what you know.

      And where in the Bible does it say that only perfect people are reconciled to God and go to heaven?

      The Bible says that those who repent of their sins and follow the Lord will be saved and go to heaven.

      The Greek and Hebrew words usually translated “perfect” don’t mean the same as “perfect” in English. Though they can mean what is spotless and unblemished, they also mean what is full and complete. God wants our full devotion, head, heart, and hands, not mere belief and half-hearted pretending.

      What the Bible does say is that those who believe in God and love God, and those who love their neighbor and do good deeds for their neighbor, will go to heaven.

      See, for example, Matthew 25:31-46, in which the Lord himself says who will and will not enter into eternal life. It is not based on mere belief, but on action.

      Matthew 25:31-46 is quoted in full in the companion piece to this one:
      Christian Beliefs that the Bible Does Teach
      There you will also find many other Bible passages showing what the Bible actually does teach about who is saved and who is not.

      Reply
16. BradB says:

    January 18, 2015 at 2:16 pm

    Lee, hi, new visitor here. I was raised an evangelical, but my father (a now-retired minister) was open enough to ask tough questions, and so he (and eventually I) converted to the Orthodox faith. I have a good friend who is a Swedenborgian pastor here in Maine, and I’ve been trying to digest his works a little at a time (Swedenborg’s, not my friend’s).

    I believe that what God has been saying to us has not changed, but what we have heard has been changing, as a result of our own spiritual growth as a species. I think the root of all our conflicts in discussions such as these is an inability of the institutions to which we align ourselves to move on to more pertinent metaphors. The Old Testament clearly shows a progression of a people from polytheism to henotheism to monotheism. Abraham’s sacrifice of Isaac wasn’t God saying “sacrifice your son,” it was Abraham saying “maybe god doesn’t want us to be sacrificing our children.” Yet the idea (metaphor) that God needed to be appeased still resided in the semitic cultures.

    Fast forward 2000 years or so, and at the time of Christ, people saw themselves as chattel property of the empire. The good news of Christ is that we ARE NOT such property; we are autonomous individuals (“… the sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath…”), but we are all equal (“…in Christ there is neither slave nor free…”). In this context, metaphors equating the death and resurrection of Christ made perfect sense. To the people of that era, this was monumental good news: Christ fulfilled the law, in that it was an “old paradigm,” no longer applicable, no sacrifices necessary anymore.

    However, to continue to discuss these metaphors in today’s context is woefully pointless. It is not that the metaphors used in the Bible don’t mean anything, it’s simply that we overlay a veneer of 2000 years of institutional explanations over our own complete lack of context (who still conceives of a God who requires sacrifice?). This is simply the problem Paul foresaw (“… avoid useless controversies…”) writ large.

    Swedenborg’s vision of heaven as being the “body of Christ” is a metaphor that, for me, resonates perfectly with scientific notions of evolution (see the works of Bruce Lipton). Christ’s resurrection somehow set off a “belief bomb.” Somehow, his actions triggered a subtle shift in consciousness, which WILL lead to the inevitable emergence of the “body of Christ.” I recognize this sounds bizarre and heretical to some, but if my faith is in Christ, what does it matter? I really don’t have any idea whom he “paid the price” to; suffice it to say, it means something in a cosmic sense, and my faith is increased exponentially when I form a set of metaphors that “work for me,” and I suspect will work for others as well.

    We are a species just beginning to grasp the meaning and purpose of symbols and metaphors (e.g. Plato et.al, as well as the creation/fall myth). The metaphors we use to try and express the ineffable define our reality, but if we remain stuck with symbols (sin, redemption, sacrifice) that have no resonance in our context, how can we even hope to communicate? In other words, we are moving from a metaphor from a God who requires sacrifice, to one who loves unconditionally, will always invite us to come home, but will not violate our free will. Christ “paid the price” by simply demonstrating to us that no sacrifice is required: simply, belief will do.

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      January 19, 2015 at 9:46 am

      Hi BradB,

      Thanks for your good and thoughtful comment.

      I agree, of course, that in our spiritual evolution we humans have hit points of paradigm shift, one of which took place at the time of Christ. And today I believe we are going through a similar spiritual paradigm shift.

      What strikes me is that even though the actual practice of animal sacrifice, for example, is almost entirely gone from human society, the idea that God requires sacrifice still seems to have a powerful hold over many minds. A large remnant of the previous paradigms still seems to exist in society today.

      Otherwise how can we account for the popularity of evangelical and fundamentalist Christian theologies that still take it as a cornerstone of their faith that God required a perfect sacrifice to atone for the sins of humankind, and that only the sacrifice of his sinless divine Son would do?

      I think what we’re dealing with is a spiritual version of the old evolutionary idea that “ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny.” Apparently it doesn’t exactly work in evolution, but in human development it does seem that we as individuals go through similar stages to what humans as a species have gone through in our spiritual history and development.

      If that is the case, than we can hope that the masses of people in the more simplistic and old-paradigm religious groups and movements will, in time, grow beyond them and embrace later developments in spiritual understanding and practice.

      Reply
      • BradB says:

        January 19, 2015 at 12:31 pm

        “Otherwise how can we account for the popularity … that only the sacrifice of his sinless divine Son would do?”

        Fear, pure and simple. We are still tribal; we still need to belong. And the success of the early Church was also its undoing. It morphed into a state religion, still based on the notion of the “great chain of being,” and this is precisely what we are still grappling with. We are shocked at the notion that anyone should tell us what religion to believe, but anyone who dares defy the state is an anarchist and traitor.

        The ONLY function of any organism is to perpetuate its own existence. And the only existence any religious institution has lies in perpetuating its own dogmas. And its dogmas MUST BE interpreted according to its own authority.

        As far as hope for the religious masses waking up, some will and some won’t. I did! That’s the bit about being “cast into outer darkness,” and as Christ tells those who did all sorts of things “in his name,” “depart from me, I never knew you.” In other words, aligning yourself with the right religious institution HAS PRECISELY NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER OR NOT YOU ARE “SAVED!” Could he have stated it any more clearly?

        On the other hand, most everyone I know who has the integrity and maturity to ask these difficult questions–including relatives and friends I haven’t seen in years–is waking up to this realization! Your paragraph on evolution is spot on, it’s exactly where I’m at. What we need to do is examine how a child achieves self-awareness–through the use of symbols to recognize that it is separate from its world–and see how it is that the human race is going through an analogous process. The creation/fall myth is our waking up to the fact that we are separate individuals. Unlike a child, who achieves self-awareness over the course of a few years, our time scale is much longer. Yet, without a doubt, we are becoming aware of our connection with everything. This is the evolutionary process: differentiation, then re-forming of the atoms/molecules/cells/humans to a higher level of consciousness.

        Reply
        • Lee says:

          January 20, 2015 at 10:41 am

          Hi BradB,

          I agree that belonging to a religious institution has very little to do with salvation. Salvation is something that takes place between a person and God.

          However, religious institutions, if they are not corrupt (and to a more limited extent even if they are corrupt) can help guide people toward salvation by making them aware of teachings and beliefs based on the Scriptures–which is where God speaks to us in an enduring form.

          I would say that when an organism’s only function is to perpetuate its own existence, it is entering its dying phase. For an organism such as a church or religion that has spiritual roots, the death may be spiritual rather than organizational. Yet spiritual death tends to lead eventually to organizational death, sometimes on a time sale of centuries and millennia.

          In nature, organisms do seek to perpetuate themselves and their own species. However, they also have functions in relation to the wider ecosystem. Predators, for example, function to cull the weak individuals out of the genetic stock of their prey species, thus strengthening the overall stock of those species. And of course, prey species provide food for predator species. So although it may seem harsh to us, there is a symbiotic relationship between predator species and prey species. Each one serves the other.

          This is just one example of how species exist for more than just to perpetuate their own existence.

          An uncorrupted church organization does more than perpetuate its own existence. It brings God, religion, and the awareness of God’s offer of spiritual salvation into the minds and hearts not only of its already existing members, but of people in the wider world. If a church organization is not serving to spread the presence of God and spirit into the wider world, but is focusing only on self-preservation, that is a dying church–dying because it is not fulfilling the purposes for which it exists under God’s providence.

        • Lee says:

          January 20, 2015 at 11:03 am

          Hi BradB,

          About why many people still gravitate toward concepts of God that require literal sacrifice, I would say that it has more to do with a low, materialistic spiritual level than with fear.

          Yes, fear comes into it. But fear is a function of focusing on physical and material issues instead of on God and spirit. For a person whose life is focused on love, wisdom, goodness, and truth, and on serving the neighbor, there is no fear associated with God–except a certain holy fear of doing anything contrary to God’s will, which is a fear of doing harm rather than a fear of being harmed.

          The evangelical and fundamentalist focus on the penalty of sin rather than on the sin itself is evidence that their beliefs are based more on a concern for matters of physical pleasure and pain than on matters of spiritual love and service.

          And yet, physical pleasure and pain is what motivates people who are at a low level of spiritual development. They are motivated, not by love, and not even by truth, but by a form of semi-blind obedience out of fear of punishment. The fear is a function of their early-stage, still rather materialistic phase of spiritual development.

          I outlined this idea briefly in this comment on the article, “If Non-Christians can Go to Heaven, Why should Christians Evangelize?

          As for why the early church went so far off-course and morphed into a state religion, I would say that had more to do with a desire for power on the part of church leaders than on anything else. If you read the history of the councils and doctrinal conflicts that started within a century or two of Jesus’ death, it is rife with ill-will and even deadly hatred against all who disagreed with the various positions being promulgated by various factions.

          The history of the “development” of the corrupt “Christian” doctrine that has reigned in the bulk of the Christian world for nearly two thousand years has nothing to do with spreading the love of Jesus, and nothing to do with seeking out truth for truth’s sake. It has everything to do with various factions seeking power over others.

          Because the focus was on power, those corrupted Christians invented heresy after heresy. The heresies that won, such as a Trinity of Persons in God, won not because they were true or based on the Bible, but because the factions that invented and championed them were more powerful, and were able to vanquish and silence their opponents. If you could get the emperor on your side, you could more effectively silence your opponents. The church became increasingly brutal, and as you say, became a state religion, focused on worldly power rather than on spiritual power–which involves spreading God’s love and light.

17. BradB says:

    January 24, 2015 at 2:13 pm

    While all that you say is true, the underlying process is still that of evolution. Every organism begins dying the day it is born. Every religious institution is begotten in an effort to codify the system that it purports to most accurately reflect reality. The long trail of Christological “heresies” spring not from any evidence per se (even in the canonical scriptures Christ was quite ambiguous about his divinity) but rather the logical results of the institution taking its own set of metaphors as fact (which is, as Joseph Campbell noted, the error that all religious organizations fall into).

    The point of all this is that science, in demonstrating that life evolves, has given us a metaphor that we can use to see both the micro progression of religion (as you note above, the heresies that “won” did so based on the power of those who supported them), as well as the macro progression of humanity: that the emergence of the “body of Christ” is the next level of consciousness, which is a natural and inevitable result of meta-evolution.

    So in this process, the various “churches” are, quite simply, mutations that result from sincere efforts to beget “the church.” Note that Swedenborg never wanted to establish a new “denomination,” and the church that emerged from his teachings has not exactly taken the world by storm (no harm meant to those faithful who continue to spread his good words).

    No, this is all simply the process of humanity creating new metaphors to more accurately describe the nature of reality. An Orthodox saint (I think it was Theophan the Recluse) describes our relationship with God as going through three stages: first, he is the master and we are the slaves; we do his bidding out of fear. Second, he is the employer, and we the employees; we do our jobs for our own self-interest. Finally, we see him as the father and us as his children; finally, we do his will out of love.

    This is the process humanity has been going through in recorded history. The message of Christ is that of love, and we are waking up to see that love as the underlying meaning and purpose of reality. Eventually, something will trigger a “psychic” realization that we are truly interconnected. Some will react in fear (and cast themselves into “outer darkness,”) and some will recognize this as the emergence of the body of Christ, and “enter into the kingdom.”

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      January 26, 2015 at 5:39 pm

      Hi BradB,

      Thanks for your continued thoughts, which I read as a different angle, or perspective, on the same underlying reality.

      It’s quite true and accurate that the denominational structures set up to follow Swedenborg’s teachings have not taken the world by storm. I’ve come to see them as an instance of putting new wine in old bottles. I draw a parallel between them and the Jerusalem Christians in the early days of the Christian church, who were soon eclipsed by the great growth of Christianity in the pagan world.

      I’m still trying to figure out what the new church heralded by Swedenborg will look like. However, if it follows the pattern of previous churches, though its seeds come from the previous religious dispensation (in this instance, the previously existing Christian church), its major growth will take place outside of those institutions–which will themselves gradually subside in their size and influence on the world’s population.

      Swedenborg likened churches and religions to individual human beings: they are born in innocence and high hopes, grow up, reach adulthood and the height of their powers, then go into decline and finally die spiritually, even if they may still exist as social institutions.

      Of course, science doesn’t actually originate anything. It simply observes what exists, and describes it using its own language and metaphor. Evolution has been part of God’s creation from the beginning. It’s just only lately that we humans have begun to catch on to that reality.

      Reply
18. chandlerklebs says:

    March 3, 2015 at 11:43 am

    I know an apologist who adamantly defends the doctrine of the Trinity. I don’t understand how that one became so important.

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      March 3, 2015 at 12:34 pm

      Hi Chandler,

      Thanks for stopping by. Good to hear from you here.

      I was not brought up believing in a Trinity of Persons, so it’s taken me a long time to really “get it” about why so many Christians think it’s so important. It made no sense to me. I just didn’t see why anyone would believe such an illogical, contradictory, and non-Biblical idea.

      But I have come to realize that it is the fundamental false doctrine on which all of the other false doctrines of so-called Christianity are founded. I know that sounds harsh. But I do believe that institutional Christianity has gotten so far off-track doctrinally over the past two thousand years that it can hardly even be called Christian.

      Just one example: Without the Trinity of Persons, the whole Penal Substitution doctrine–the idea that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins, and that we are therefore saved solely by believing that Jesus died for us–just doesn’t work. It requires the existence of one person of the Father, who is angry at us for our sin and requires payment, and another person of the Son, who through his death on the cross provides the payment required by the Father, and thus assuages the Father’s wrath. And since Penal Substitution and salvation by faith alone is the foundation of all Protestant doctrine, without the Trinity of Persons, the entire edifice of Protestant doctrine falls to the ground.

      That’s why a Trinity of Persons is so important to Protestants. Catholic doctrine similarly requires a Trinity of Persons, or it, too, falls to the ground.

      And yet, ordinary Catholics and Protestants who believe in Jesus as they are taught and live good lives are still saved. It’s not what we believe, but how we live that determines our spiritual character and our eternal home.

      Reply
      • chandlerklebs says:

        March 4, 2015 at 12:38 pm

        “Just one example: Without the Trinity of Persons, the whole Penal Substitution doctrine–the idea that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins, and that we are therefore saved solely by believing that Jesus died for us–just doesn’t work. It requires the existence of one person of the Father, who is angry at us for our sin and requires payment, and another person of the Son, who through his death on the cross provides the payment required by the Father, and thus assuages the Father’s wrath. And since Penal Substitution and salvation by faith alone is the foundation of all Protestant doctrine, without the Trinity of Persons, the entire edifice of Protestant doctrine falls to the ground.
        That’s why a Trinity of Persons is so important to Protestants. Catholic doctrine similarly requires a Trinity of Persons, or it, too, falls to the ground.”

        Yes! That explains a lot. Without an angry Father to save us from, Jesus has nothing to save us from. The trinity doctrine sounds more like a tri-theism(belief in three gods).

        Reply
        • Lee says:

          March 4, 2015 at 1:04 pm

          Hi Chandler,

          Jesus still has plenty of things to save us from, as explained in the article “Who is God? Who is Jesus Christ? What about that Holy Spirit?” It’s just that God is not on that particular list.

          I agree with you that the Trinity of Persons is a tri-theistic belief. No matter how many times you say “one,” it still amounts to three gods, which is polytheism. The Athanasian Creed more or less admits this when it says:

          For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord, so are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords.

          In other words: “Even though there actually are three gods, we’re not allowed to say so.” It is a highly revealing statement in one of the most widely accepted Christian creeds.

          Incidentally, this is a common charge against Christianity by strictly monotheistic religions such as Judaism and Islam: that Christianity is a false religion because it teaches that there are three gods. And I do think that most Christians think of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit as three different beings, which means that they’re thinking of them as three different gods.

          However, the Trinity of Persons is a human invention not found in the Bible. It is a false doctrine. True Christianity is monotheistic, as explained in the article linked just above.

19. Doug Webber says:

    March 4, 2015 at 3:37 pm

    I was introduced to Christianity through the Protestant Church, and the doctrine of the New Church on this matter really does clarify things in a better light. The main change that occurs is in regards to the Lord’s prayer – Protestants and Catholics will have a tendency in their mind to pray to the Father, as a separate person from Jesus. But in the New Church, the Father is known to dwell within Jesus, and that “His name” is Jesus Christ. Prayers are directed to one person, Jesus Christ, and the focus remains on one person only.

    In other words, when one shifts from a trinity of three beings to one person, God incarnate in Jesus Christ, Jesus becomes elevated above all things and is no longer a “secondary” person that can be “bypassed.” You see this mindset in some people who have a habit of referring to “Father God” in their speech, which is foreign to revealed scripture. This shift in mindset may not be apparent to those who grow up in the Swedenborgian church.

    From a spiritual perspective, this puts one in closer conjunction with Jesus Christ as a person. Thus Swedenborg states that the New Church brings new light, and fulfills, the meaning of the Lord’s prayer.

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      March 4, 2015 at 3:56 pm

      Hi Doug,

      Thanks for your thoughts.

      Having grown up with Swedenborg’s teachings about Jesus as God’s own presence with us, I was always a bit confused when I heard people praying to the Father for the sake of the Son and that sort of thing. It was only later that I realized this was based on Trinitarian concepts that make God and Jesus separate beings.

      During my teenage years, even though I was taught that people believed this sort of thing, it seemed ridiculous to me that anyone would think that way, and I didn’t think anyone actually believed it. Then I encountered people who actually did believe it. That was when it started to truly hit me just how confused the Christian world is.

      Even today, decades later, I find it a little hard to believe that people would continue to believe and insist that there is a Trinity of Persons in God–especially when the Bible says no such thing.

      I do think that as people hear and accept the reality that Jesus Christ is God’s own human presence with us, it will make possible a much closer relationship with the Lord. Thomas called Jesus “my Lord and my God” (John 20:28). And that is who he is.

      Reply
20. Bobby says:

    May 1, 2015 at 3:13 pm

    Unfortunately, you are a true disciple of Emanuel Swedenborg… I understand that you want to present clear Biblical teaching but the result is replacing “men’s wisdom” with one man’s wisdom.

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      May 1, 2015 at 3:30 pm

      Hi Bobby,

      Thanks for stopping by, and for your comment. This is a common charge, usually made by Christians whose main doctrines come from Martin Luther or John Calvin, not from the Bible.

      Swedenborg based his teachings solidly on the Bible.

      If you look through the articles on this website, you will find that they appeal to the Bible, not to Swedenborg, as their primary authority. This very article that you are commenting on appeals to the Bible itself as the basis of its statements.

      Unlike Luther, Calvin, and many other Christian theologians of the past, Swedenborg does not replace the plain teachings of the Bible about God and salvation with human-made doctrines such as a Trinity of Persons, salvation by faith alone, and predestination. Instead, he bases his teachings on the entire Bible. He helps us to understand the Bible in a deeper and more spiritual way so that we can become true disciples of Jesus Christ.

      For more on Swedenborg’s place in relation to the Bible, please see:
      Do the Teachings of Emanuel Swedenborg take Precedence over the Bible?

      Reply
21. Brian says:

    June 27, 2015 at 6:54 am

    You say of the things that the Bible doesn’t teach,”All of these beliefs were originated by human beings hundreds or even thousands of years after the Bible was written.” However, the teachings of Swedenborg come almost two thousand years later; why should we believe?

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      June 27, 2015 at 10:57 am

      Hi Brian,

      Good question!

      The basic answer is that unlike most of the main doctrines of the traditional Christian churches (Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox), the teachings that Swedenborg said are basic to Christianity are taught plainly and clearly in the Bible. Please see the companion article, “Christian Beliefs that the Bible Does Teach.”

      For more on the position of Swedenborg’s writings in relation to the Bible, please see the article, “Do the Teachings of Emanuel Swedenborg take Precedence over the Bible?”

      Reply
      • Brian says:

        June 28, 2015 at 2:31 am

        Thank you for the response. I’d ask then why shouldn’t we go back to the teachings of the Apostles and the early Church Fathers that were either with or once or twice removed from Christ himself?

        Reply
        • Lee says:

          June 28, 2015 at 2:04 pm

          Hi Brian,

          Another good question.

          I do agree that the Apostles and at least some of earliest Church Fathers were closer to the truth that Jesus Christ taught than those in later centuries, when various heresies such as three persons in God took over the church. The Epistles present a very different view of Christianity than the one that took over in Catholicism, and later in Protestantism.

          Unfortunately, over the centuries those churches imposed such thick, distorting lenses of false doctrine upon the Bible that many Christians today cannot read and understand the Bible in its own light.

          That, I believe, is one of the reasons the Lord called Swedenborg to the task of bringing new light to the world. That light was always available in the Bible. But the Bible had been so shrouded in mystery and false doctrine that few, if any, people could see the true light of the Bible.

          Also, consider Jesus words in John 16:12:

          I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.

          Jesus came into the world at humanity’s darkest hour. In those days, few could understand the things he taught even at the simplest level. And even those simple teachings were quickly corrupted–within a few centuries of his death–leading to the Dark Ages, and the horrible wars, oppression, darkness, and death that took place during many of the centuries in which Christianity reigned in Europe.

          In recent centuries, much of that darkness has been lifted. Human science and philosophy have progressed vastly beyond what existed in the times of Jesus’ life on earth. We are able to see and understand many things that were completely opaque to the people of two thousand years ago.

          Doesn’t it stand to reason that in this age of new light, understanding, and human scientific and social advancement, we humans would be capable of understanding spiritual things at a deeper level than we could at the time Jesus Christ walked the earth?

          I believe that humanity is finally reaching the stage in which we can begin to understand the spiritual depths in the teachings of Jesus. And I believe that Swedenborg was called, not to rewrite the Bible, but to show us the spiritual and divine truth that has lain hidden in the Bible for thousands of years now–but our eyes were too dim to see it until now.

          In other words, I don’t see Swedenborg’s writings as replacing the Bible, but as illuminating the Bible so that we can see its true divine and spiritual nature.

22. Brian says:

    June 30, 2015 at 4:22 am

    Dear Lee, Some interesting points to ponder. Maybe it is my Trinitarian upbringing, but it seems you are discounting the work of the Holy Spirit within the Church over the years. And I personally do not believe that human scientific and social advancements make us capable of understanding “spiritual” things at a deeper level; that is the work of God in each one of us *if* we are open to hearing his voice. While I can’t discount the teaching/illumination as provided by Swedenborg, I am also not willing to say the Church perverted Scripture and Christs teachings through the years. I will say that there have been times, due to our human frailty, that yes, some abused their power. Where I get nervous, for the lack of a better word, is found in Matthew 7:15, “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.”

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      June 30, 2015 at 8:00 am

      Hi Brian,

      Given that Swedenborg lived a highly moral and useful life, and gained no profit whatsoever from the publication of his writings, but actually paid for them out of his own pocket, I think it would be hard to characterize him as “a ravenous wolf,” inwardly or outwardly. Human wolves generally gain some benefit for themselves through their activities–or at least are aiming for some benefit for themselves.

      Swedenborg was well aware that such objections and charges would be made against him. This is what he wrote toward the beginning of his first published theological work, Secrets of Heaven, #67-68:

      The Lord in his divine mercy has given me the opportunity to learn the inner meaning of the Word, which contains deeply hidden secrets that no one has ever been aware of before. No one can become aware of them without learning how things stand in the other life, since almost all of the Word’s inner meaning looks, speaks, and points to that life. For these reasons, I have been granted the privilege of disclosing what I have heard and seen over the past several years of interaction with spirits and angels.

      I realize many will claim that no one can talk to spirits and angels as long as bodily life continues, or that I am hallucinating, or that I have circulated such stories in order to play on people’s credulity, and so on. But none of this worries me; I have seen, I have heard, I have felt.

      He did not even claim credit for his theological writings, publishing them anonymously until it became publicly known years later that he was their author.

      He just doesn’t sound very wolfy to me. But you will have to make up your own mind. I would simply suggest that you make up your mind based on what he wrote, and not on charges made against him by his religious and doctrinal opponents.

      Reply
    • Lee says:

      July 1, 2015 at 9:06 am

      About the first part of your comment, I happen to believe that the Enlightenment itself was part of the work of the Holy Spirit operating in our world.

      God, through the Holy Spirit, began to clear away the darkness and blockage of the human mind that had been brought about primarily by corruption in the church and the false doctrine resulting from that corruption. As that blockage was cleared away, thinking people began to brush aside old, false dogmas, and see the world in a new light, free from those old religious shackles on the mind.

      From the perspective of Swedenborg’s theology, this is all part of the ending of the old and now corrupt and falsified Christian era, and the beginning of a new Christian era, symbolized by the descent of the holy city, New Jerusalem, described in the final two chapters of the Bible. Here are a couple of articles that go into a little more detail on this:

      Christianity is Dead. Long Live Christianity!

      Is the World Coming to an End? What about the Second Coming?

      Reply
23. Brian says:

    July 2, 2015 at 4:45 am

    Dear Lee, thanks for the response. By no means was I insinuating that Swedenborg was a wolf; it’s the belief in something other than what was handed down to us through the Church. You mention false doctrine given to us through a corrupted Church. While I agree, that some decision made by the those in positions of authority within the Church were corrupt, I also believe that the true Church is corrected by the work of the Holy Spirit. I am unable to discount an entire Christian era. I must ask what is meant by that? When did it start falling away from the teachings of Christ?

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      July 2, 2015 at 8:03 am

      Hi Brian,

      The Christian church began falling away from the teachings of Christ very quickly–within the first few centuries after Christ. I’m not an expert in church history, but certainly by the time of the late third century and the early fourth century, “Christians” were locked in bitter battles with one another over doctrinal issues, behind which were battles over who would hold power in the church.

      The first and second “ecumenical councils” (the First Council of Nicaea in 325 AD and the First Council of Constantinople in 381 AD), were products of those bitter internal battles within Christianity. And their primary, enduring product was the Nicene Creed, which was the beginning of the end for the Christian church doctrinally.

      That creed began establishing the non-Biblical heresy that God is a Trinity of Persons, which was strengthened and affirmed in the Athanasian Creed a century or two later. Those two creeds have been accepted throughout most of Christianity. And they have corrupted Christian doctrine throughout all the succeeding centuries of Christianity. All of the false doctrine in Christianity is based on the fundamental falsity that God is three Persons. Without that false doctrine, all of the false doctrines of atonement and so on that obtain in the various branches of Christianity fall to the ground.

      Yes, the Holy Spirit attempts to correct the church. However, when the leaders of the church are more interested in “correct doctrine” and in ecclesiastical and worldly power than they are in following the two Great Commandments given by Christ himself–to love the Lord our God above all, and love our neighbor as ourselves–the Holy Spirit can find no place to rest in the hearts and minds of those leaders because they reject the presence of the Holy Spirit.

      The history of Christianity from the fourth century onward is largely a sad and sordid affair full of heresies, conflicts, wars, immorality, and darkness. It really can’t be called “Christian” in any meaningful sense.

      Christianity itself never did reform itself. The Protestant Reformation did correct some of the worst excesses of Catholicism. However, it also introduced the destructive, anti-Biblical doctrine of salvation by faith alone, which caused even more doctrinal corruption, and led to a myriad of schisms and sects, all in conflict with one another.

      The only thing that finally started to turn things around was the Enlightenment in the 17th and 18th centuries and the general rejection of superstition and irrationality that accompanied it. From the perspective of Swedenborg’s theology, the Enlightenment itself was a preparation for and symptom of the end of first Christian era, and the beginning of the new Christian era symbolized by the holy city, New Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God as described in the last two chapters of the Bible.

      Reply
      • Brian says:

        July 13, 2015 at 6:20 am

        Dear Lee,

        Sorry for the late reply. I truly appreciate all you lay out, but I struggle to believe the Holy Spirit would abandon His Church and leave decisions that would effect all of God’s children in the hands of mere men; leading many astray and leading none to the eternal Church. While agree with some of the teachings you mention, I can’t believe God would abandon his Church.

        Reply
        • Lee says:

          July 18, 2015 at 12:36 pm

          Hi Brian,

          Thanks for your further thoughts. It’s not that the Holy Spirit abandoned the Church. It’s that the Church abandoned the Holy Spirit.

          God will not force himself upon those who turn their backs on him. And through its long history of intolerance and violence, the so-called Christian Church turned its back on God in a big way.

          If you read the Old Testament, you will find that although God promised an eternal kingdom and an eternal temple to the Israelites, when they abandoned God’s teachings and God’s commandments, God removed that nation from its place, and allowed their holy temple to be destroyed.

          Christianity is no different. God makes an eternal promise. But if we turn our backs on God’s promise, the promise fails, not because God abandons us, but because we abandon God.

          God never turns his back on us. But when we turn our backs on God, there is only so much God can do. God can only hold us back from worse destruction. But if we willfully turn our face away from God and toward destruction, rejecting God’s commandments and God’s teachings, then we have sealed our own fate.

          God saves us only when we turn to God and allow God to save us. The historical Christian Church did not do that. Instead, it went for wealth and worldly power, forsaking the teachings and commandments of Christ. That is why the Christian Church eventually lost its place as the leading spiritual light in the world, just as the ancient Jewish religion lost its place at the coming of Christ.

24. Jerry DeCaire says:

    August 9, 2015 at 11:44 am

    I’m curious, what do you think about the hell doctrine? That is, specifically, the ETERNAL hell doctrine? There are so many things in the Bible that are an affront to my conscience and I have to refer to Paul’s point that under the new law a man shall no longer say ‘know the Lord,’ but rather, the ‘law of God shall be inscribed on each man’s heart.’ First, why else would God inscribe a conscience on EACH man’s heart if he were exclusive in his salvation or didn’t require some good behavior on our part? And secondly, and getting back to the hell issue, an eternal hell is also an affront to my conscience-the very thing given to me by God. Something about an eternal hell grates on that conscience and especially against the backdrop of a supposed loving God. A brutal and eternal suffering for, from God’s perspective, something akin to a momentary insult is a bit over-kill-no? I recall that time when Christ said to this Jewish Pharisee who had no faith in him at all-was not at all a ‘Christian’- that the sinners in Sodom will enter the kingdom BEFORE he does. Note the word BEFORE. Christ never suggested the Pharisee will never make it.

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      August 9, 2015 at 3:44 pm

      Hi Jerry,

      Thanks for stopping by, and for your good question.

      If you mean hell as a place where God sends people who “insult” him (sin against him) to be punished and tormented forever, I don’t believe in that sort of hell. Instead, I believe in a hell where people choose to go if they enjoy doing evil instead of doing good. For more on this, see my article, Is There Really a Hell? What is it Like?

      That choice will have a lot to do with whether the person lives, or doesn’t live, according to his or her conscience. See Romans 2:12-16, and also my article, Can Gang Members Go to Heaven? (Is Life Fair?)

      I hope this helps!

      Reply
25. melanieluquetorres says:

    September 29, 2015 at 7:49 am

    And what about the christian belief that we have to get married just with christian people. It is valid the interpretation that the church made about 2 cotinthians 6:14:

    “Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?”

    I would like to hear his opinion about this, thanks.

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      September 29, 2015 at 10:32 am

      Hi melanieluquetorres,

      Thanks for stopping by, and for your question. As it turns out, you’re in luck! I’ve written a whole article on this very subject in response to earlier questions from readers:

      What if My Partner and I Have Different Religious Beliefs? Can Interfaith Marriage Work?

      If, after reading that article, you still have questions, please don’t hesitate to ask.

      Reply
      • melanieluquetorres says:

        September 29, 2015 at 11:35 am

        thanks for the answer!, I just red the article and I’am agree with the most part of it.However I would like to chare my personal situation with you.
        I came from a christian family, but I didn’t have yet a personal encounter with God and I’m very confused and skeptical about some things about christianity.I strongly believe in God, but no so much with the bible.I met a guy and he is anthropologist. Hi is not atheist but has his own belives . He thinks christians are to closed mind because do not accept other realities and thing that only”christian God” is the only one.Also, he is in desagreement that christina just base their entires lifes JUST on the bible and do not accept other things.I think the most of the things he said are logical and They deserve to be taken into account.It opened my mind and I would like to be a believer that is not afraid to think beyond what the church says.Finally, he always tell me that he respect my beliefs and he doesn’t want me to change, but He would like me to think further and be more open and considerate of other faiths to have a broader picture of reality.

        Reply
        • Lee says:

          September 29, 2015 at 11:58 am

          Hi melanieluquetorres,

          Of course, I can’t tell you what you should do, since I’m not in your shoes. But from what you say, this guy does seem to be a thoughtful and respectful person.

          Really, the question is whether you want to open your mind further as your anthropologist friend is suggesting. It sounds to me like you’re inclined in that direction anyway. And I happen to think that having a broader view of one’s faith is a good thing.

          Along those lines, I would happily suggest that you spend some time reading more of the articles here on Spiritual Insights for Everyday Life that may pique your interest. This site is all about taking a broader view of Christianity, and of religion in general. If you want to believe in God but also want to be able to think broadly about many scientific, historical, and social issues, I think you’ll find the perspective presented here very helpful.

          In particular, you might enjoy this article, which just happens to be far and away the most popular article on the site:
          If there’s One God, Why All the Different Religions?
          The articles linked at the end of that one will provide further food for thought along those lines.

    • Doug Webber says:

      September 29, 2015 at 10:51 am

      Marriage and one’s religion go hand in hand. Swedenborg once spoke to an angel on this matter, who replied in this manner:

      “…the human conjugiale and religion go together at every step. Every advance, even every step from religion and in religion is also an advance and step from the conjugiale and in the conjugiale that is peculiar to the Christian man.”

      To the question;—”What is this conjugiale?” he said:—”It is the desire of living with one only wife. And it is in the Christian man according to his religion.” (Angelic Wisdom concerning Marriage Love, n. 80)

      If your religion does not agree, or there is no religion, there will be a tendency in the long term for the marriage love to grow cold which is discussed at length in “Angelic Wisdom concerning Marriage Love”, an entire book on this subject. Statistical studies have shown where a couple shares a religion, it lasts longer.

      So while Paul is correct in general, he puts more emphasis on belief. Here I would say it is more important to have a life according to the principles of religion. There are too many who believe one way and live another.

      Reply
26. Brian Edmunds says:

    March 19, 2016 at 5:51 am

    “How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones against the rock,” (Psalm 137:9).

    And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.”

    Why aren’t conservative Christians trying to make everything in the Bible the law? Why is it they only want the parts of the Bible that support their preexisting bigotry and ignorance codified into law?

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      March 19, 2016 at 12:13 pm

      Hi Brian,

      Thanks for your comment and question, which is a good one. In reality, there is no consistent principle by which various conservative Christian churches believe that some commandments in the Bible are binding upon us today and others are not. As you suggest, it depends more on their own pre-existing cultural views and practices than on any sound mode of reading and interpreting the Bible.

      Reply
27. Jean claude says:

    May 16, 2016 at 11:39 pm

    I think the bible is clear about Jesus If you do not have Jesus it is impossible to be saved and I will Prove you that from Genesis .God is clear about that genesis 3 .15 So the son of a woman not man but a woman who represents Mary .crushing the heel is satan killing Jesus the head crush is the Jesus destroying satan with all his works.So God found a way to tell people to believe in christ so they can become his children john 1,12 ,ok another verse that is clearly show you need Jesus is act 4,10 -12. Roman 10.9 .So let ‘s don’t try to interpret what is clear to understand .So here it is the proof that without Jesus no salvation and the reason why it is important to say it loud because you are hold responsible for your declaration in front of God ,the world and the enemy .just like people who follow the devil have to declare to be having satan as their god.And why by grace because it is how God shows his love to us .Paul and James are not in opposition God is clear about it .john 14,21,Matthew 7,26.

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      May 17, 2016 at 2:00 pm

      Hi Jean claude,

      Thanks for stopping by, and for your comment.

      I agree that we need Jesus, and that without Jesus it is impossible to be saved. But that’s not necessarily the same thing as believing in Jesus. Jesus has power to save those who follow his commandments to love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength, and to love our neighbor as ourselves, even if they don’t realize that Jesus Christ is God.

      For more on this, please see this article: Is Jesus Christ the Only Way to Heaven?

      Reply
28. Ben says:

    July 1, 2016 at 5:00 am

    Hi Lee,
    Thanks for your good works, your articles have been a Blessing to me.
    I agree that faith alone is not enough for our salvation. After we have been saved through faith, we must begin to do those things/works that really testifies to our new status as children of God. After accepting Jesus as our Lord and saviour, we are not called to reckless living, rather we are supposed to live like Him. Apostle Paul puts it this way: shall we continue to sin that grace may abound?
    Now my question. It’s on Matthew 7:22. Here we have people who have faith in Christ, and also did good works but yet they were rejected by Christ. How do you see this Lee?

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      July 1, 2016 at 5:21 pm

      Hi Ben,

      Thanks for stopping by, and for your comment.

      Being saved through faith means that faith leads us to salvation. Faith itself does not save us. But the life of loving God and loving our neighbor that faith leads us to is salvation. Ultimately, it is God’s love, which our translations of the Bible commonly call God’s “grace,” that saves us.

      About Matthew 7:22, we must read the context to get the whole picture:

      Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day many will say to me, “Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?” Then I will declare to them, “I never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.” (Matthew 7:21-23, italics added)

      He then goes on to tell the parable of the wise and foolish builders:

      Everyone then who hears these words of mine and acts on them will be like a wise man who built his house on rock. The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on rock. And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not act on them will be like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell—and great was its fall! (Matthew 7:24-27, italics added)

      The people who are rejected, and whose house (spiritual life) comes down with a crash, are people who have not done good works, except for show and for personal reputation. These are people who make a big show of being religious and doing “deeds of power” very publicly and ostentatiously to be revered and followed as better people than others, but who do not humbly love and care for their neighbor on a daily basis without seeking anything in return, as Jesus commanded us to do. That’s why Jesus called them “evildoers.” Any “good works” they do are purely self-serving, and are therefore not good in God’s eyes.

      Reply
29. Caeduthen says:

    November 14, 2016 at 5:00 pm

    In the article you write that “the doctrine of salvation by faith alone did not become a widespread “Christian belief” until after Martin Luther promulgated it as part of the Protestant Reformation in the 1500s.”

    This statement definitely piques my interest. Can you provide a source for the claim?

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      November 14, 2016 at 5:50 pm

      Hi Caeduthen,

      Thanks for stopping by, and for your comment and question.

      Justification by faith alone is commonly known as the key doctrine that distinguishes Protestantism from Catholicism and also from the Orthodox Church, as you can see if you read the Wikipedia article on Sola Fide (Latin for “by faith alone”). On Luther’s development of the doctrine of justification by faith alone, see “Martin Luther -> Justification by faith Alone” on Wikipedia.

      Some Protestant scholars have attempted to find support for the doctrine in the early Church Fathers, but Catholic and Orthodox scholars dispute their claims, as also covered in the Sola fide article on Wikipedia. Meanwhile, the Catholic Council of Trent, called in response to the Protestant Reformation, specifically repudiated and anathematized the doctrine of justification by faith alone, which had never been a part of Catholic theology.

      In short, this is simply a matter of history.

      I’ve referred you to Wikipedia as a commonly known and reasonably objective source. But you could read the same thing in almost any standard work on the history of Christian doctrine. Martin Luther originated the doctrine of justification by faith alone; before him, and before the Protestant Reformation, it was not part of Christian doctrine.

      For more on this, please see the article, “Faith Alone Does Not Save . . . No Matter How Many Times Protestants Say It Does.”

      Reply
30. Melinda Camper says:

    November 25, 2016 at 11:27 am

    No the Bible does not state verbatim the comments that you have made. But, the implication is there for each and every one. (ie) There is a Trinity of Persons in God, Matthew 28:19
    Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (He did not say go Baptize them in the name of God.) The word Trinity is no where in the Bible but here the implication of 3 in 1 is plainly seen a (trinity) It does not say that only Christians are saved. But it does say John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever “believes” in him shall not perish but have eternal life. What is the definition of a Christian? One who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ (Webster) So, if you are a believer then you are a Christian. Then by definition John 3:16 say’s Christians are saved. One you did not use is also not found in the Bible. Rapture is not found anywhere in the Bible. But what does it mean? In Christian eschatology the rapture refers to the belief that either before, or simultaneously with, the Second Coming of Jesus Christ to Earth, believers who have died will be raised and believers who are still alive and remain shall be caught up together with them (the resurrected dead believers) in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air (Wikipedia) again the implication is there in the Bible…After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 1 Thessalonians 4:17

    Sir, I’m sure this is all written with good intentions, and I compliment you for your dedication to be precise regarding the Lords work. However this page can cause young unstudied, uneducated Christians unnecessary confusion about Gods word and his plan for our lives. Jesus Christ has come to save us form sin and death. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23 There is no denying that the Bible “does” teach that Jesus paid the price or penelity for sin. Otherwise we have no salvation at all.

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      November 25, 2016 at 3:02 pm

      Hi Melinda,

      Thanks for stopping by, and for your comment.

      Unfortunately, it is the very teachings you mention that can cause young, unstudied, uneducated Christians unnecessary confusion about God’s Word and God’s plan for our lives. It’s not just that these teachings aren’t stated “verbatim” in the Bible. They are not stated or taught there at all. And many of them are specifically rejected by the Bible.

      I realize that you have probably been taught these things as “biblical truth” all your life. I expect it will be hard, if not impossible, for you to realize that these things simply are not taught in the Bible. But that is the simple fact of the matter.

      Matthew 28:16–20, commonly known as the “Great Commission,” is the only passage in the Bible in which the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are mentioned together by name. And as you say, in Matthew 28:19 Jesus commands his gathered disciples, after his resurrection:

      Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

      Now let’s look at what the Apostles actually did when they baptized people:

      Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” (Acts 2:38, italics added)

      And:

      Then Peter said, “Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” So he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. (Acts 10:46–47, italics added)

      Peter was present when Christ delivered the Great Commission. Was Peter disobeying the direct commandment of Jesus Christ, which he had heard with his own ears, when he baptized in the name of Jesus Christ?

      See also Acts 8:16; 19:5. If you read through the entire book of Acts, you will see that the Apostles never literally baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Instead, they always baptized in the name of Jesus. So either they were disobeying Christ’s own direct commandment, or the name of Jesus is the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

      The Bible does not teach that there is a Trinity of Persons in God. Instead, it teaches that the risen and glorified Lord God Jesus Christ is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. One God, one Person.

      For more on the simple fact that the Bible does not teach that there is a Trinity of Persons in God, please see:

      • Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
      • What is the Biblical basis for disbelief in the doctrine of the Trinity?

      If you wish to understand what the Bible really does mean by the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, please see: “Who is God? Who is Jesus Christ? What about that Holy Spirit?”

      The doctrine of the Trinity of Persons simply isn’t taught in the Bible. It was first formulated by human theologians 200–300 years after the last books of the Bible were written, and first promulgated as official church doctrine in the Nicene Creed, written by the Christian bishops gathered at the First Council of Nicaea in 325 AD, and more fully defined in the Athanasian Creed a century or two later. The fact that the Trinity of Persons is a doctrine that was formulated by human beings hundreds of years after the Bible was written is simply a matter of history.

      Once again, I know this may be difficult for you to accept, since you’ve probably been taught it all your life, and you probably believe that if you abandon your belief in the Trinity, you are abandoning your belief in the Bible, in God, and in Jesus Christ.

      But the simple fact of the matter is that you have been taught doctrines that are not taught anywhere in the Bible, that were made up by human beings long after the Bible was written, and that simply are not true.

      If you can overcome what you have been taught all the years and see your way clear to rejecting these non-biblical and false doctrines, then you will first begin to be able to accept what the Bible actually does teach, and the true, saving message of the Lord Jesus Christ as taught in the Gospels.

      To avoid making this comment too long, I’ll respond separately to the rest of your points.

      Reply
    • Lee says:

      November 25, 2016 at 3:40 pm

      Hi Melinda,

      As you say, the Bible does not say that only Christian are saved.

      But of course, it does say that Christians are saved if they believe in Jesus and follow his commandments, the chief of which are to love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength, and to love our neighbor as ourselves. So yes, John 3:16 says that Christians are saved. What it doesn’t say is that all non-Christians are damned.

      In fact, the Bible says very clearly that non-Christians such as Jews, “Greeks” (pagan polytheists) and “Gentiles” (meaning non-Jews generally) are saved if they live good lives according to their conscience:

      But by your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath, when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. For he will repay according to each one’s deeds: to those who by patiently doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; while for those who are self-seeking and who obey not the truth but wickedness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be anguish and distress for everyone who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality.

      All who have sinned apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but the doers of the law who will be justified. When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness; and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all. (Romans 2:5–16, italics added)

      Paul really couldn’t have been any clearer about how non-Christians are saved by God through Jesus Christ!

      And Jesus himself, in speaking of “the day when God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all” told us in Matthew 25:31–46 that all the nations (not only the Christian nations) will be judged for eternal life or eternal punishment based on whether they have done, or not done, good deeds for their fellow human beings who are in need.

      They will not be judged for eternal life or eternal death based merely on their faith. Jesus doesn’t say one word about faith in that entire passage about the judgment of the nations. Instead, he says that all people, from all the nations, will be judged for eternal life or eternal death based on their deeds. This is the plain teaching of Jesus Christ himself.

      So those Christians who claim that only Christians can be saved are not only contradicting the plain teachings of Paul in his Epistles, but they are also contradicting and rejecting the teachings of Jesus Christ himself in the Gospels.

      For more on this, please see, “Is Jesus Christ the Only Way to Heaven?”

      Now about the Rapture, for the sake of time I won’t go into detail about it here. But basically, the mistake conservative Christians have made in reading passages such as 1 Thessalonians 4:17 is reading them literally, “according to the letter, which kills,” and “the flesh, which is useless,” rather than metaphorically, according to “the spirit, which gives life” (see John 6:63; 2 Corinthians 3:5–6).

      For more on what the Apocalypse, the Last Judgment, and the Second Coming are really all about, please see:

      • Is the World Coming to an End? What about the Second Coming?
      • The Evangelicals are Right: The World IS Coming to an End!

      Jesus made heavy use of parable and metaphor in his teachings. His Apostles followed his example, and also made heavy use of metaphor in their teaching. It is a basic error on the part of conservative Christians to read literally, in a fleshly manner, words and teachings that are meant to be understood according to the spirit, and as speaking of spiritual things.

      Reply
    • Lee says:

      November 25, 2016 at 4:00 pm

      Hi Melinda,

      Finally, for now, the Bible does indeed say that Jesus Christ came to save us from sin and death.

      But you can look as hard as you want through the entire Bible, and you will never find a single passage in which it says that Jesus “paid the price” or “paid the penalty” for our sin. It says he suffered for our sins. It says that he bore our sins. But that is not at all the same thing as “paying the penalty” for our sins in the sense of getting punished for them instead of us so that we would not have to be punished for them.

      I challenge you to find even one passage in the Bible that teaches that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins. You simply will not find it. That’s because the doctrine of Penal Substitution simply isn’t taught in the Bible. It was invented especially by John Calvin (1509–1564) and Philip Melanchthon (1497–1560), leading theologians of the Protestant Reformation, 1,500 years after the last books of the Bible were written.

      Before the Protestant Reformation, Penal Substitution, the idea that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins, simply didn’t exist in Christianity. That’s because the Bible never actually teaches this doctrine. For more on this, please see these articles:

      • Did Jesus Really Die to Pay the Penalty for our Sins?!?
      • The Faulty Foundations of Faith Alone – Part 5: Jesus Paid the Penalty For Our Sins?

      Jesus was not concerned with paying the penalty for our sins. Instead, he wanted to take away the sins themselves. When, through the faith and power of Jesus Christ working in us, we are no longer sinners, we will no longer draw the wages of sin, which is death.

      Once again, I realize that you have probably been taught doctrines such as the Trinity of Persons, salvation by faith alone, penal substitution, and so on all your life as if they were God’s own truth straight out of the Bible. But the simple fact is that none of these things is taught in the Bible, plainly or otherwise.

      I would urge you to set aside all of these false teachings that have been drilled into your head by your preachers for so many years. Read the Bible with fresh eyes. And read some of the articles on this blog about what the Bible really does teach. You will see, if you are able to set aside the old, traditional “Christian” dogmas that were invented by human beings over the centuries, and instead read the plain words of the Bible itself, that a whole new world of Good News will open up for you in its pages.

      Reply
31. Baron Eickhoff says:

    January 5, 2017 at 4:53 pm

    A lot of interesting dialogue on “salvation”, but I think someone should discuss what the Old and New Testaments are addressing when they talk about “salvation”. The gospel of salvation appears in the Old Testament as well as the New Testament. Peter said 8 souls were saved during the Genesis flood, and it had nothing to do with being saved from hell. In fact, Biblical salvation is not on how to escape after-death judgment/punishment for our wrong doings.

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      January 6, 2017 at 10:38 pm

      Hi Baron,

      Thanks for stopping by, and for your comment.

      Indeed, “salvation” as presented in the Old Testament is quite different from “salvation” as presented in the New Testament.

      In the Old Testament, until quite late in the prophets, “salvation” is mostly about salvation from material world ruin of one kind or another. On that subject, you might be interested in an answer I wrote on Christianity StackExchange to the question, “What did salvation mean to the Israelite people of the OT?”

      In the New Testament, however, “salvation” came to mean salvation of the soul, or eternal life in heaven—a concept that is largely absent from the Old Testament. But even in the New Testament, as you say, salvation really isn’t about how to escape after-death judgment and punishment for our wrongdoings. Rather, it is about how to leave behind our sinful, selfish, and destructive life and become a new person motivated by love for God and love for the neighbor. So salvation is really a state of being rather than merely escape from eternal punishment.

      Reply
32. Tori says:

    January 13, 2017 at 3:53 pm

    My gosh there’s a lot of comments O_O

    I’m really sorry if I’m being annoying with all these questions, but religion is complicated stuff and I have a tendency to think about things too much, sorry.

    But I was wondering if you can explain a couple of sins: sloth, jealousy, swearing, selfishness, and worry.

    I’ve never understood why laziness was a sin. My dad says that it’s only a sin where you’re hurting people, like not bothering to clean up broken glass. Stepping on glass is most likely (I never stepped on it before so I’m just assuming things) a LOT of trouble to go through and it would be better if you cleaned it up in the first place.

    But may you explain it a bit more and perhaps give me a few examples of what would and wouldn’t be sloth?

    On jealousy, being jealous is human nature, isn’t it? So does it mean being jealous to the point of actually trying to hurt somebody because of it? Like, if you feel like your best friend gives more attention to this other friend and you’re jealous, you start picking on your friend’s friend is when it goes too far?

    An article explaining the 7 Deadly Sins wouldn’t be too bad of an idea, actually because I’m sure many people are curious about it.

    On the topic of swearing, I’m kind of lost with this. Is it a sin? Is it a sin bad enough to send me to hell? Does it depend on the context? Like, if you stub your toe and scream the f-word, it’s not a sin, but if you say f-word you to somebody else, that’s a sin? That seems to make sense to me, but I’m not God.

    On selfishness, this is more of a recent question I’ve had. I’ve recently spoken with somebody, and I’ve explained my encounter with several people on the internet who are struggling and my feeling of responsibility for them. He told me that in order to help others, I need to help myself first because I’m not going to be any help towards them if I’m not. I told him that God would rather me put others first, but he told me that all religions preach not to be too extreme when doing so. I wanted to actually ask about it because I feel like I would be selfish.

    On the topic of preaching not to be too extreme, it isn’t a sin if I am being extreme, right?

    On the topic of worry, I was searching for answers on google about lust because I didn’t understand it at the time (before I found your article), and I came across a sentence that said worrying is a sin. I laughed it off because I thought that was ridiculous, but after googling “Is worry a sin”, I started getting scared because a lot of people agree with that. I’ve seen some articles saying “worry itself is not a sin, turning God away is a sin”. If it is, then I’m in serious trouble.

    I feel like I sin too much. I feel like everyday I sin. I don’t know if that’s completely normal to sin everyday or if it’s just me. Everything feels like a sin nowadays :I

    Sorry for asking so many questions, I’m just not very trusting with other sites because I always feel like I’m getting an honest answer.

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      January 14, 2017 at 12:42 pm

      Hi Tori,

      Yes, when you say that what most Christians believe isn’t actually taught in the Bible, that sparks some reactions! 😉

      As for all of your questions, it doesn’t bother me a bit. I enjoy answering questions. However, there are enough questions here to keep me busy for a week, and I don’t have quite that much time today! 😛

      About the seven deadly sins, it’s not as though that’s something the Bible teaches. If you read the Wikipedia article on them, you’ll see that they come from some early Christian ascetics—meaning people who think we must live a simple, monastic life and deny ourselves pleasures in order to be truly holy. And while I don’t recommend indulging in them, some of them really aren’t as spiritually deadly as the name implies.

      In general, it’s not necessary to deny ourselves all pleasures and withdraw from the world in order to be saved. God gave us physical senses, drives, and desires, and pleasure in experiencing them, for a reason. The main problem comes when we put physical and sensory pleasure ahead of loving God and the neighbor. If our main goal in life is to experience as much pleasure and excitement as we can, that will be a wasted life.

      Here is an article that may help to put the whole thing into perspective: “God Proposes, but Man Disposes . . . and God Re-Composes.”

      Selfishness actually isn’t on the list of the “seven deadly sins.” But if it runs our life, it is far more deadly than all of the rest put together. However, there is also a place for self-love. It just isn’t supposed to run the show—especially as our spiritual life progresses and we mature as people. This is covered some in the above-linked article. Here are two more that may shed some light:

      • Spiritual Growth 101 with Mike Tyson: “The Virtue of Selfishness”
      • Self-Esteem is Made to be Broken

      I know you had a lot more questions. But these articles should keep you busy for a while. 😉 And if you then want to come back and try again on some of your questions that I didn’t really answer, please feel free.

      Reply
      • Tori says:

        January 17, 2017 at 2:08 pm

        Thank you :3

        Reply
33. danielledulac says:

    March 24, 2017 at 6:33 pm

    Hi Lee, might I ask, in your opinion what does it mean to stray from God?

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      March 24, 2017 at 8:16 pm

      Hi danielledulac,

      Thanks for stopping by, and for your comment and question—which is a good one.

      Physically, straying from someone means wandering away from the place where they are. But since we know that God is present everywhere, clearly straying from God does not mean moving away in a physical sense. Instead, if we’re moving away from God, we’re moving away from God in heart, mind, and actions—which is another way of saying we’re moving away from God spiritually.

      What exactly that means to you will depend upon just who you think God is, and what you think God is like. Whatever your belief is about the nature of God, when you move away from that nature, you are straying from God as you understand God.

      My understanding of God is that God is a being prompted by pure infinite love and guided by pure infinite wisdom to give eternal happiness and blessing to all who will receive it from God. God’s love, I believe, is a love that wants to give what it has to others, and make others happy out of that love. Of course, that doesn’t necessarily mean God always gives us what we want in the short term. Often the things we want would be very bad for us if we got them. But it does mean that God is always acting for our long-term good and happiness, even if that may mean leading us through difficult times and tasks along the way.

      Straying from God, then, in my view, means not loving others the way God loves us, and not acting from wisdom, but from foolishness, and not doing what we can to love and serve other people and give them help and comfort, and especially not working toward their long-term wellbeing. When we care only about ourselves and our own family (which we commonly see as an extension of ourselves), and everything we do is calculated to increase our own pleasure, possessions, and power, and that of “our own” people, then we have strayed very far from God, because God thinks not of God’s own self and God’s own benefit, but of others, and of their benefit. (However, we do, of course, need to take care of our own needs and the needs of our family, to keep ourselves in good shape for being of service to others.)

      Unfortunately, the general human condition is that we are already far from God. Our task is to find our way toward God instead of straying even further away. As long as we are making at least some progress toward God, then even if we may still be at a distance, we are going in the right direction. We are moving toward God instead of straying farther from God.

      Does that help?

      Reply
      • danielledulac says:

        March 29, 2017 at 11:31 pm

        Yes it does 🙂 thank you for your insight on this

        Reply
34. Kenny Lau says:

    June 21, 2017 at 1:56 pm

    I agree with your 4th point, but I might put it that way:

    2 Timothy 3:16-17 says (ESV) “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”

    There are two problems with interpreting that to mean that the Bible is inerrant:

    1. “Scripture” clearly refers to the Old Testament, not the New Testament, which came into existence well after the epistle was written. Therefore, this simply does not apply for the New Testament.

    2. Let’s say that “Scripture” refers to the whole bible. It still does not follow that the Bible is inerrant, because people often ignore the text after “breathed out by God”, which is that the purpose of the Bible is “for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness”, not for acting as a Science textbook.

    Would you agree with the way I put it above? I would be honoured to receive your criticism.

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      June 21, 2017 at 2:39 pm

      Hi Kenny,

      Thanks for stopping by, and for your comment.

      Short response: I agree with you 100%.

      When “the Scriptures” are mentioned in the New Testament, it’s talking specifically about the Hebrew Bible, or Old Testament. Those were the Scriptures that the early Christians had. The books that became the New Testament were written over the first century of the Christian era, and didn’t become fully canonized as Scripture on par with (or even above) the Old Testament until another couple of centuries had passed by. We, of course, can apply these words also to the New Testament, because we see it also as Scripture. But when Paul wrote his letters to Timothy, his “Scripture” was what we now call the Old Testament, and that is what he was specifically referring to.

      One reason it sometimes gets murky is this passage from 2 Peter, as commonly translated:

      So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. (2 Peter 3:15–16, italics added)

      Here the Greek word should probably not be translated as “Scriptures,” but rather as it’s more basic meaning of “writings.” At the time Peter wrote his epistles, there had not been time for Paul’s epistles to become canonized as Scripture. But traditional and fundamentalist Christians commonly interpret this verse as support for the Epistles being regarded as Scripture even when they were first being written and circulated. I think that’s a mistake of translation and interpretation.

      On your point 2, yes, “God-breathed,” or in more common theological language, “divine inspiration,” does not mean “inerrant.” The error in inerrancy is in the idea that God is a literalist, and that everything said in the Bible is meant to be literally true even if it’s about science or history or other non-spiritual subjects.

      But really, the Bible’s purpose is to convey spiritual truth and understanding to us about God, spirit, and salvation, and especially to move us to do what we need to do to be saved and gain eternal life. The “science” and “history” in the Bible is simply a vehicle to convey that deeper truth, insight, and motivation. For more on this, please see these two articles:

      1. The Bible: Literal Inerrancy vs. Divine Depths of Meaning
      2. If you Don’t Believe in the Inerrancy of Scripture, on What Basis can you Interpret Scripture?

      Thanks again for your comment. I hope you find these further thoughts and links helpful.

      Reply
35. Eugenson says:

    January 17, 2018 at 4:01 pm

    Hi, here’s what I think. John 14:6 pulverizes all your claims of every other non-christian religion leading to God and consequently resulting in salvation apart from Jesus. You are either knowingly or unknowingly propagating some very dangerous spiritual teachings here. I’m sorry if that comes across as harsh. But people have to be warned. Insidious falsehood is far more dangerous than blatant falsehood.

    Again, I believe that the Law of God is immutable. But I don’t believe that a combination of faith and keeping the Law is what will result in my salvation. I keep the Law of God (including observing the Seventh-day Sabbath, which is a part of the 10 Commands) because I am already saved. I am saved from sin.

    Since sin is the transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4), and I’m saved from it, I no longer transgress the Law. I keep the Law because I’m saved, not because I need to combine that with faith to be saved. My keeping of the Law is the fruit of my salvation and not a means to it. Therefore, those who don’t keep it, have shown by their fruits that they’re not even saved in the first place.

    If I’m saved partly by works and partly by the Law, then, I’ll find some reason to boast, contrary to Gal 6:14 and Eph 2:9. All that the apostle James wanted people to know, in the texts you quoted above, was that faith always bears fruits. Therefore, if one claims to have faith and has no fruits of good works to show for it, then, their lack of good works is proof that their faith is ineffective (dead). Faith is the only way good works are possible for spiritually dead people like us. That’s all James was pointing out. But you’ve contorted it dangerously to teach what the Bible doesn’t teach.

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      January 19, 2018 at 6:05 pm

      Hi Eugenson,

      John 14:6 reads:

      Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

      And that, of course, is true. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and no one does come to the father except through Jesus.

      But you are adding to the Bible’s, and Jesus’ words by adding in the word “believe.”

      Jesus did not say, “No one comes to the Father except through believing in me.”

      He said, “No one comes to the Father except through me.”

      In other words, whether people realize it or not, if they come to the Father—meaning to God—they do it through Jesus Christ. And that’s just as true of Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, and yes, even Jews, as it is of Christians. I realize that people of other religions may find this insulting or condescending. Nevertheless it is true. There is no other way to God but through Jesus, whether or not we intellectually believe in Jesus.

      All of this is covered in this article:
      Is Jesus Christ the Only Way to Heaven?
      As you will see, the last section of this article discusses John 14:6 specifically.

      Unlike your doctrine, I do not add extra words to Jesus’ statement. I read exactly what he says and pay attention to his exact words.

      As for the rest, as long as you obey Jesus’ commandments, and the commandments of God in general as found in the Bible, you will be saved regardless of the false belief in justification by faith alone that you have derived from your preachers, who derived it from Martin Luther, who invented that false belief even though he knew that the Bible rejects it.

      God doesn’t care so much about what we believe in our heads. God cares about what we do with our life. Jesus said:

      Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. (Matthew 7:21)

      and:

      Why do you call me “Lord, Lord,” and do not do what I tell you? I will show you what someone is like who comes to me, hears my words, and acts on them. That one is like a man building a house, who dug deeply and laid the foundation on rock; when a flood arose, the river burst against that house but could not shake it, because it had been well built. But the one who hears and does not act is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. When the river burst against it, immediately it fell, and great was the ruin of that house. (Luke 6:46–49)

      and:

      “What do you think? A man had two sons; he went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work in the vineyard today.’ He answered, ‘I will not’; but later he changed his mind and went. The father went to the second and said the same; and he answered, ‘I go, sir’; but he did not go. Which of the two did the will of his father?”

      They said, “The first.” (Matthew 21:28–30)

      It is not what we say, nor what we believe intellectually, but what we do that counts.

      So you will be saved, not because of your false, non-biblical faith alone doctrine, but because you are living in your life the way Jesus and the Bible teach us to live.

      James was not deceived. He understood what you deny: that we are saved by our good works and our faith working together. No matter how many times Protestants try to explain it away, and no matter how many fancy words they use in doing so, the simple, biblical truth remains:

      You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. (James 2:24)

      That is the plain teaching of the Bible.

      Reply
36. Eugenson says:

    January 18, 2018 at 12:01 am

    P.S. Here are a few other Bible texts that fly directly in the face of your unbiblical teachings: Acts 14:12 says, “Salvation is found in no one else, for there’s no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.” I’ve already given you John 14:6 that says, “Jesus answered, ‘I am the way, and the truth and the life. NO ONE comes to the Father EXCEPT THROUGH ME.'” (NIV [emphasis supplied]).

    You might want to watch this video in which the Pope declares that Buddhism (idolatry), Islam and Judaism (devoid of Jesus) are all legitimate paths to God. Watch the video and tell me how your message is different from that heresy. Heaven is taking note of these things you religious teachers do to mislead the sons of men. You can’t say the error of your ways weren’t called out and that you weren’t warned by another human before the day of judgment. Here’s the video link:

    Again, Jesus died to pay the penalty for our sins is precisely what the Bible teaches. Read Isaiah 53:5 which say, “He was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.” How much clearer can it get?

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      January 18, 2018 at 3:42 am

      Hi Eugenson,

      Thank you for stopping by, and for your comment.

      Unfortunately, you are reading into the Bible things that simply aren’t there.

      That’s because you are reading the Bible through the thick lenses of a doctrine, Penal Substitution, that was invented and developed by human beings (the early Protestant theologians) 1,500 years after the Bible was written. This is a simple fact of church history, as you can see at the link to the Wikipedia page on the subject.

      Acts 14:12 and John 14:6 are correct: There is salvation in no one but Jesus Christ, and no one comes to the Father except through Jesus Christ. That’s why Paul tells us that people of all religions: Jewish, “Greek” (pagan polytheist), and Gentiles in general (non-Jews or non-Christians) are judged and saved by Jesus Christ:

      God will repay each person according to what they have done. To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.

      All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares. (Romans 2:6–16)

      Paul could not be clearer that God, through Jesus Christ, saves good people of all religions, Jewish, “Greek” and Gentile, who live good lives and do good deeds according to their conscience, which is God’s law written on their hearts.

      You are very much mistaken if you think that Jesus Christ has the power to save only Christians. In saying this, you are not only disrespecting Jesus Christ by limiting his power, but you are flatly contradicting the plain teaching of the Bible on this subject.

      See also Matthew 25:31–46, in which Jesus Christ himself tells us that on the day of judgment God will call together the people of all nations (not just Christians) and will judge them for eternal life or eternal punishment based on whether or not they have done good deeds for their fellow human beings in need.

      You are very much mistaken. You have wandered into falsity because you are ignoring the plain teachings both of the Apostle Paul and of the Lord Jesus Christ himself about who is saved, and about Jesus’ Christ’s power to save good people of all religions.

      Thank you for linking that video here. It is good to see that the Roman Catholic Church is finally in the process of renouncing its age-old, presumptuous, anti-biblical falsity that “there is salvation only within the (Catholic) Church.” That is and always has been an utterly false and non-Christian teaching, as the above Bible passages show beyond a shadow of a doubt.

      Now if Protestant Christianity would also renounce the false teachings it has been promulgating about Jesus Christ’s limited power to save only Christians, then perhaps Protestantism would finally begin to be an actual disciple and follower of Christ rather than placing the false teachings of Luther and Calvin above those of Jesus Christ and his Apostles.

      Once again, nowhere in the entire Bible, including in Isaiah 53, does it ever say that Christ paid the penalty for our sin. Even in the New International Version (NIV) translation, which wrongly translates many passages in Leviticus to support the false Protestant doctrine of Penal Substitution, neither the word “price” nor the word “penalty” is found anywhere within the entire chapter of Isaiah 53. That’s because Isaiah was not talking about Penal Substitution. Isaiah was not talking about Christ supposedly paying the penalty for our sins.

      If he were saying that Christ, an innocent person, paid the penalty for us guilty sinners, he would have been declaring something that the Scriptures themselves say God rejects and detests:

      Have nothing to do with a false charge and do not put an innocent or honest person to death, for I will not acquit the guilty. (Exodus 23:7, italics added)

      And he passed in front of Moses, proclaiming, “The Lord, the Lord, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished.” (Exodus 34:6–7, italics added)

      The Lord is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished. (Numbers 14:18, italics added)

      When people have a dispute, they are to take it to court and the judges will decide the case, acquitting the innocent and condemning the guilty. (Deuteronomy 25:1, italics added)

      Acquitting the guilty and condemning the innocent—the Lord detests them both. (Proverbs 17:15, italics added)

      Whoever says to the guilty, “You are innocent,” will be cursed by peoples and denounced by nations. (Proverbs 24:24, italics added)

      In multiple places the Bible itself says in words as plain as day that God rejects and detests the entire principle behind the false Protestant dogma of Penal Substitution: that of an innocent person suffering the penalty in place of an innocent person.

      And the God of the New Testament is not a different God than the God of the Old Testament. God didn’t suddenly change his mind, and decide that he no longer detests putting an innocent person to death and declaring a guilty person innocent as a result.

      Make no mistake about it, the false, human-invented Protestant doctrine of Penal Substitution is an affront to God and a blasphemy against God, who has declared in words clear and plain that he detests the very idea of it, and that anyone making such a declaration will be “cursed by peoples and denounced by nations.”

      This could not possibly be what Isaiah is talking about. If it were, Isaiah would be directly contradicting the God from whom his prophetic words came, and he would have been struck down as a false prophet.

      In fact, Isaiah makes it very clear in chapter 53 that the erroneous idea that God punished Christ for our sins is completely wrong:

      Surely he took up our pain
      and bore our suffering,
      yet we considered him punished by God,
      stricken by him, and afflicted.
      But he was pierced for our transgressions,
      he was crushed for our iniquities;
      the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
      and by his wounds we are healed.(Isaiah 53:4–5

      In other words, we mistaken humans thought God was punishing him, but that is not the case. Instead, he was pierced for our transgressions and iniquities—or it could also be translated because of our transgressions and iniquities, as it is in the Complete Jewish Bible (which, despite its name, is a Christian translation of the Bible):

      But he was wounded because of our crimes,
      crushed because of our sins;
      the disciplining that makes us whole fell on him,
      and by his bruises we are healed.(Isaiah 53:5, CJB)

      Christ did not “pay the penalty” for our sins in the legalistic way that Penal Substitution falsely supposes. In fact, that whole doctrine flatly contradicts Paul, who said that we are no longer under the Law, or a legalistic system, but under Grace, meaning under God’s love. Falling back into a legalistic “satisfaction” theory of atonement such as Penal Substitution is violating everything Paul preached about our moving from Law-based system to Grace-based system due to the work of Christ. It is backsliding into the very legalism that Christ came to abolish.

      Rather, Christ withstood the full force of all the evil and wickedness that had built up in humanity since the time of the Fall, absorbing the deathblow of that wickedness that otherwise would have fallen upon us.

      Remember, it was humans, not God, who crucified Jesus. It was the ancient Jewish leadership who handed him over to be executed; it was the Romans under Pontius Pilate who actually executed him. This was not God punishing his Son. It was human beings attacking and murdering God’s Son, due to the evil that had taken over human society and the human heart.

      Jesus did not pay the penalty for our sins. Rather, Jesus fought against human evil and sin, bearing in his own body its attacks and blows so that we, who are weak and prone to sin, would not be killed by that attack and those blows. And his death on the Cross was his final battle, his victory over death itself being sealed by his rising from death on the third day.

      As an analogy, consider a frontiersman whose son (in this case, representing humanity) has foolishly taunted a grizzly bear, poking it with sticks and shouting at it when it was sleeping. Now the grizzly bear is awake, and it is charging at the frontiersman’s son, who is running wildly toward the cabin. When the frontiersman sees what is happening, he rushes out of the cabin with knife in hand, gets between his son and the charging grizzly, and fights off the grizzly bear, killing it with his knife, but dying himself in the process, thus saving the life of his beloved son.

      The frontiersman did not “pay the penalty” for his sons foolish actions in some legalistic way as Penal Substitution says. Rather, he took the attack and the blows in his own body that would otherwise have fallen on his foolish and wayward son. He stood between his son and the power of death represented by the charging grizzly bear.

      That is what Jesus Christ did for us, and that is what Isaiah is talking about.

      It was because God so loved the world that he gave his only-begotten son. God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself (not himself to the world). Christ did not pay the penalty for our sins. Nowhere in the entire Bible does it ever say that.

      Rather, Christ fought against the Devil, human evil, and hell, sustaining its attacks and blows that were aimed at us, and gaining full victory over the Devil and all evil in the process. Through the “punishment” (or pain and suffering) that Christ endured at the hands of the Devil, we are saved, because we no longer have to fight against the Devil alone—and inevitably lose the battle due to our own weakness and sinfulness. Now that Christ has fought and won that battle against the power of evil for us, Christ offers us the power to overcome evil and the Devil in our own lives. And Christ offers that power to all people, of every religion, who follow his two Great Commandments: to love the Lord their God with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength, and to love their neighbor as themselves.

      I am very sorry, Eugenson, that you have been taught such utterly false doctrines, contrary to the plain teachings of Jesus Christ himself, contrary to the teachings of Paul, contrary to the teachings of the Prophets, and contrary to the teachings of every other biblical writer. I urge you to abandon the false doctrine of Penal Substitution, which was invented by human beings 1,500 years after the Bible was written, and learn and listen to what the Bible itself actually teaches about how Jesus Christ saves all people from their sins if they are willing to live by the conscience that God has placed as a law in their hearts, each according to their own religion.

      Here are a few more article that cover these points, from which you can learn what the Bible really teaches on these subjects:

      • Is Jesus Christ the Only Way to Heaven?
      • The Faulty Foundations of Faith Alone – Part 5: Jesus Paid the Penalty For Our Sins?
      • Did Jesus Really Die to Pay the Penalty for our Sins?!?
      • Did Jesus ever actually say, “If you don’t believe in me you will go to hell”?
      • Faith Alone Does Not Save . . . No Matter How Many Times Protestants Say It Does
      • Faith Alone Is Not Faith
      • The Logic of Love: Why God became Jesus

      May the Lord God Jesus Christ shake the scales of false human doctrine off of your eyes, and enlighten you with the truth.

      Reply
      • Jonathan R. says:

        February 22, 2018 at 8:37 pm

        You said:
        “`
        Paul could not be clearer that God, through Jesus Christ, saves good people of all religions, Jewish, “Greek” and Gentile, who live good lives and do good deeds according to their conscience, which is God’s law written on their hearts.
        “`
        in reference to Romans 2. You miss the entire point of Romans 2 if you take this position. In 1:18 he has set the stage by saying that the WRATH of God is revealed against ALL ungodliness of and unrighteousness of men. He describes God’s giving people over to their sin and the increasing of ungodliness. In Chapter 2 he sets forth a hypothetical by describing how God will indeed “render to each one according to his works” (6) and for those who “seek for glory and honor and immortality” (7) he will give eternal life…..”for God shows no partiality” (11). Verses 12-16 make clear that having or not having the codified law makes no difference because the law still stands. “The doers of the law will be justified” and for those who do not have the law “they are a law unto themselves….they show that the work of the law is written on their heirts while their conscience also bears witness.” He goes on to continue this and entertain the idea that the Jews might have some kind of advantage by having the codified law and circumcision. But then… and this is the very point he is getting to…. it’s all for naught because “We have already charged that ALL, BOTH Jews and Greeks are under sin. “NONE is righteous.” So yes, IF someone kept the law, then they would be saved. But the whole point is NO ONE HAS because it’s in our very nature that we are sinners. Therefore, “By works of the Law NO HUMAN BEING will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.” That’s all it can do. Reveal sin. Not gain righteousness or salvation.

        Reply
        • Lee says:

          February 23, 2018 at 9:42 am

          Hi Jonathan,

          I understand that this is what Protestants see when they read Romans 2. But it’s simply not what Romans 2 says.

          Starting where you do, with Romans 1:18, Paul speaks of how people knew very well the nature of God and what God expects of us, but they chose to reject God and live evil lives instead—and God allowed them to do so. And the wrath is against their sin, because even though they knew very well that the way they were living was wrong, they continued to do it anyway. That’s what sin is: knowingly doing what we’re well aware is wrong and against God’s will. When we do that, God’s wrath rests on us. As for what God’s wrath is, please see:
          What is the Wrath of God? Why was the Old Testament God so Angry, yet Jesus was so Peaceful?

          In Romans 2 Paul then goes on to contrast those who live an evil life with those who live a good life. There is nothing “hypothetical” about this. Nowhere does Paul say, “Now let’s talk about people who hypothetically keep the law—either the codified law or the law written on their hearts.” He simply says that those who do will be saved, while those who do not will be condemned. Here it is in Paul’s own words:

          He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality. (Romans 2:6–11)

          He doesn’t say, “Hypothetically, God will give eternal life to those who by patience in well-doing for glory and honor and immortality.” He doesn’t say, “Theoretically, there will be honor and peace for everyone who does good.” He doesn’t say, “In theory, this will be for the Jew first, and also the Greek, for God shows no partiality.”

          You are adding words to scripture when you add that “hypothetical.” Scripture itself says no such thing. It simply says what it says: that those who do good will receive eternal life, whereas those who do not will receive wrath and fury. This is the plain teaching of Paul, and of the entire Bible.

          You are very much mistaken, because you are adding words to Scripture, and ignoring the plain words of Scripture.

          As for not being justified by the works of the law as spoken of in Romans 3, clearly Paul does not mean good works by “the works of the law” because he has just said that God will reward everyone according to their works. What he means, rather, is that being an observant Jew and scrupulously keeping all of the ritual and ceremonial laws of Moses will not justify or save anyone. Rather, it is the faith in, or faithfulness to, God in keeping these laws, or the laws written in one’s heart, that will save a person. For more on the meaning of “works” and “the works of the law” in Paul’s writings, please see the later sections of this article:
          Doesn’t Ephesians 2:8–9 Teach Faith Alone?

          It is you, my friend, who have completely misunderstood Romans 2 because you have been misled by false doctrines that are taught nowhere in the Bible.

          I urge you to read what Paul says in Romans 2 without adding words to it or subtracting words from it. If you do this, you will realize how mistaken you have been because of the false human teachings you have received. And then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free from all of the human traditions that have supplanted the Word of God.

      • Jonathan R. says:

        February 22, 2018 at 8:51 pm

        You said:
        ““
        See also Matthew 25:31–46, in which Jesus Christ himself tells us that on the day of judgment God will call together the people of all nations (not just Christians) and will judge them for eternal life or eternal punishment based on whether or not they have done good deeds for their fellow human beings in need.

        You are very much mistaken. You have wandered into falsity because you are ignoring the plain teachings both of the Apostle Paul and of the Lord Jesus Christ himself about who is saved, and about Jesus’ Christ’s power to save good people of all religions.
        “`
        There are several things to note here.

        1. It is a logical fallacy to jump from saying that Christ has the power to save all or others from other religions to saying that he will or that he chooses to do so.

        2. It is amazing how easily you are accepting Jesus words at face-value here and elsewhere as he emphasizes good works. In fact, it’s rather amusing how he seems to emphasize this to the pharisees in some cases intentionally to increase their blindness. Notice that the separation of two groups of people was not based on what they did, but who they were. The sheep and the goats. Their actions were not the basis, but rather the evidence of who they were.

        Reply
        • Lee says:

          February 23, 2018 at 9:59 am

          Hi Jonathan,

          And it is amazing to me how you simply brush aside the plain teachings of Jesus Christ in favor of the false human teachings you have been led into—teachings invented by human beings; teachings that are found nowhere in the Bible.

          In Matthew 25:31–46 Jesus says plainly that he will give eternal life to those who do good works, and that he will send to eternal punishment those who do not. Obviously if he says he will do this, then he also chooses to do this. It would be a complete self-contradiction to say, “I will send the righteous to eternal life, but I choose not to.” And God does not contradict himself.

          The false doctrines you have been taught make complete gibberish out of the plain words of Jesus Christ himself.

          And nowhere does Jesus say that he gave eternal life to those who did good deeds based, not on what they did, but on who they were. Why do you keep adding words to Scripture? Jesus simply says that those who give aid and comfort to their fellow human beings who are in need will receive eternal life, while those who do not will go to eternal punishment. In other words, they will go to eternal life or eternal punishment based on what they have done.

          The false doctrines you have been taught are causing you to contradict and deny the plain words of Jesus Christ himself.

          Why do you feel the need to add fancy human interpretations to the Lord’s words? Why are you unwilling to accept in simplicity and faith the plain teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ as given to us in the Bible?

          Yes, I accept Jesus’ words at faith value. I accept exactly what he says, without the need for fancy human interpretations. I believe that Jesus Christ—not Luther or Calvin or Jonathan R.—is the one who has the words of eternal life.

      • Jonathan R. says:

        February 22, 2018 at 8:57 pm

        “`
        In multiple places the Bible itself says in words as plain as day that God rejects and detests the entire principle behind the false Protestant dogma of Penal Substitution: that of an innocent person suffering the penalty in place of an innocent person.
        “`

        For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit – 1 Peter 3:18

        Reply
        • Lee says:

          February 23, 2018 at 10:07 am

          Hi Jonathan,

          1 Peter 3:18 says nothing about Jesus paying the penalty for our sins. It says that he suffered for our sins. And he certainly did—right up to suffering the agony of crucifixion at the hands of sinful human beings.

          I challenge you to quote me even one passage from the Bible that says that Jesus paid the price or the penalty for our sins.

          I can tell you right now that you cannot.

          I know this for sure. I have spent hours searching for any passage that even remotely says that Christ paid the penalty for our sins. And for over twenty years now I have been challenging Protestants to show me such a passage. None has ever been able to do so. That’s because there simply isn’t one.

          And if the Bible doesn’t say it, why do you believe it? Why do you replace the Word of God with human teachings and traditions?

          As for what the Bible does teach about the false idea that one person can pay the penalty for the sins of another, please see this article:
          The Faulty Foundations of Faith Alone – Part 5: Jesus Paid the Penalty For Our Sins?

      • Jonathan R. says:

        February 22, 2018 at 9:16 pm

        This could not possibly be what Isaiah is talking about. If it were, Isaiah would be directly contradicting the God from whom his prophetic words came, and he would have been struck down as a false prophet.

        That’s circular reasoning.

        
        Christ did not “pay the penalty” for our sins in the legalistic way that Penal Substitution falsely supposes. In fact, that whole doctrine flatly contradicts Paul, who said that we are no longer under the Law, or a legalistic system, but under Grace, meaning under God’s love. Falling back into a legalistic “satisfaction” theory of atonement such as Penal Substitution is violating everything Paul preached about our moving from Law-based system to Grace-based system due to the work of Christ. It is backsliding into the very legalism that Christ came to abolish.
        

        You’ve twisted quite a number of things here. Being under Grace/love doesn’t mean that the law is not the standard. “moving from Law-based system to Grace-based system due to the work of Christ.” – That’s not what happened. The law was fulfilled not abolished (See Matt 5:17-20). And it was fulfilled through Christ. Your statement the very legalism that Christ came to abolish. If legalism to you means the law, then you’re directly contradiction what Jesus himself said he came to do (or rather not do). Legalism was a wrong use of the law. The problem isn’t the Law. (See Rom 7:7).

        Reply
        • Lee says:

          February 23, 2018 at 10:19 am

          Hi Jonathan,

          What words of God would Isaiah be contradicting? Please quote them for me, and explain exactly how Isaiah would be contradicting them.

          You’ve referred to some passages, but none of them actually say what you claim they say.

          No, the problem isn’t the Law. The problem is scrupulously observing the ritual and ceremonial law while neglecting to observe the greater matters of the law, which are justice and mercy and faith, just as Jesus said:

          Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. It is these you ought to have practiced without neglecting the others. (Matthew 23:23)

      • Jonathan R. says:

        February 22, 2018 at 9:33 pm

        By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living, stricken for the transgression of my people? And they made his grave with the wicked and with a rich man in his death, although he had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth. Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.  Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities.  Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong, because he poured out his soul to death and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and makes intercession for the transgressors. – Isaiah 53:8-12

        1. he died (was cut off out of the land of the living)
        2. he died for sins of God’s people (stricken for transgression of my people)
        3. He was innocent (although he had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth)
        4. It was God’s will/plan to do so (Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him)
        5. His death was a guilt offering (when his soul makes an offering for guilt)
        6. It will be effective (he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand)
        7. He was not only innoccent (3) but righteous (by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant)
        8. Many are accounted righteous through him (by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous)
        9. …while he gets their sin (and he shall bear their iniquities)
        10. This death is an intercession on their behalf for their transgressions (he bore the sin of many, and makes intercession for the transgressors)

        Jesus said he was this suffering servant.
        For I tell you that this Scripture mus be fulfilled in me: “And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about ME has its fulfillment.”

        Reply
        • Lee says:

          February 23, 2018 at 10:34 am

          Hi Jonathan,

          Nowhere in any of this does it say that Jesus paid the penalty or the price for our sins.

          And contrary to your wording in your final point, nowhere does it say that he “gets” their sin. It says that he bears their iniquities. In other words, he has to suffer for their iniquities. And once again, he certainly did suffer for their iniquities. It was their iniquity that led them to reject him and crucify him. That is suffering for their sins.

          It simply doesn’t say anywhere in the Bible that he paid the penalty for their—or our—sins.

          Nowhere.

          So why do you believe it?

      • Jonathan R. says:

        February 22, 2018 at 9:43 pm

        If Christ’s death was not a penal substitution to pacify the just wrath of God towards our sin, then the book of Romans makes absolutely no sense.

        1. The Problem: The Wrath of God
        For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.” For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,…

        2. Declared Righteous by grace (gift) through Christ’s propitiatory death
        and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.

        3. The Result: Peace with God because of Justification based on a propitiatory, substitutionary death
        Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

        Reply
        • Lee says:

          February 23, 2018 at 10:47 am

          Hi Jonathan,

          The only problem with your viewpoint is that the Bible never actually says the things you claim it says.

          You also don’t understand what the Bible means by the word “propitiation.” It doesn’t mean placating God. It means bringing human beings into harmony with God’s will. Christ doesn’t reconcile God to us, but us to God:

          All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting the message of reconciliation to us. (2 Corinthians 5:18–19, italics added)

          It is not God, but us, who must change for there to be atonement and reconciliation.

          A full presentation of the real meaning of the words “propitiation” and “atonement” in the Bible will have to await a future article. Meanwhile, those interested may see this question and my answer on Christianity StackExchange:
          How did Swedenborg interpret 1 John 2:2: “He is the propitiation for our sins”?

          Nowhere does the Bible teach atonement by satisfaction or penal substitution. You are simply mistaken about this, because you have paid more attention to human teachings than to the plain teachings of the Bible. Please see these articles:

          • Faith Alone Does Not Save . . . No Matter How Many Times Protestants Say It Does
          • Faith Alone Is Not Faith
          • The Faulty Foundations of Faith Alone – Part 1: God is a Trinity of Persons? (and the rest of the articles in the series)
          • Did Jesus Really Die to Pay the Penalty for our Sins?!?
          • Does John 3:18 Mean that All Non-Christians Go to Hell?
37. Eugenson says:

    January 18, 2018 at 2:13 pm

    Hello again, I can see that the confusion you’re grappling with even runs deeper than I thought. How do you explain the sanctuary services where an innocent lamb is brought to the priest and the guilty Israelite places his hand on the head of the lamb and confesses all his sins after which the lamb is killed by the priest to atone for the guilty Israelite’s sins? God never came down from heaven to kill those lambs Himself, and yet, it was a system He instituted to demonstrate what He had ordained for His son to come and do. Every one of those lambs was a type of Jesus dying for the sins of the guilty. The innocent and holy Jesus died so that guilty and unholy people like me will live by exercising faith in HIs finished work on the cross.

    About every religion being a legit path to God. I’m surprised that you emphasize the importance of works as a partial means to salvation that needs to be combined with faith for salvation to be achieved, and yet you believe that those who outrightly break the first and second commandments, which state, “Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them:….” are candidates of salvation, even as they make images of humans and bow to them (Buddhists), or as they bow to some meteor rock, called the Black Stone, that fell from the sky and was stored away in Mecca (Muslims).

    Jesus has the power to save everyone who turns to Him as their Messiah. He can’t save people who willfully turn to other gods for salvation. Tha’s because He stands at the door and knocks for admittance. He doesn’t gatecrash His way into people’s lives. If they let Him in, He’ll come in. If they don’t, He’ll be at the door until their time runs out. The will is one thing God doesn’t interfere with.

    Talking about salvation by good works combined with faith: I keep God’s commandments (including keeping the seventh day Sabbath holy), by His grace, because I have already been saved. I have been saved from sin. Sin is the transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4). Therefore, having been saved from sin, I no longer transgress the Law. My good works are the result of the salvation which I already have by grace through faith and not a means to salvation.

    All those who claim they’re saved but deliberately transgress the Law, in the name of salvation by grace through faith, have provided evidence that they’re not saved at all, in the first place. On the other hand, you can’t combine good works with faith to be saved. Instead, you get saved by faith and your salvation yields good works.No man is capable of doing good without first being saved. Every such good work done outside of salvation by mere human effort qualifies for filthy rags. So you have it all backward. What the apostle James was saying was that if you claim you’re saved by faith and there are no good works to show for your salvation, you’re lying because it’s impossible to be saved and not yield good works.

    If you’re sincerely a seeker of the truth, I think this should be a pellucid no-brainer for you.

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      January 18, 2018 at 3:31 pm

      Hi Eugenson,

      Thanks for your reply.

      Unfortunately, your mind is struggling under the weight of a number of fallacies that have been induced upon it by the fundamentally false and non-Biblical Protestant doctrines of justification by faith alone and penal substitution.

      I will do my best to dispel those fallacies one by one.

      First, despite the shockingly bad translation of various passages in Leviticus by some more contemporary translations such as the New International Version and the New Revised Standard Version, nowhere does the Hebrew Bible say that the sacrifices are a penalty for sin. The Hebrew word used in those passages, as properly translated in the King James Version, is “a trespass offering” or “a sin offering.”

      The ancient Israelites did not think of these offerings as the payment of a penalty for their sins. That is why neither the Hebrew Bible (the Old Testament) nor the Greek Bible (the New Testament) ever calls them a penalty or payment for sin.

      Rather, the sacrifices were a way for the physical-minded ancient Israelite people to engage in a ritual that would bring them back into alignment with God’s will after they had strayed away. This is the real meaning of the various words translated “atonement.” It is not a way of appeasing God. Rather, it is a way for human beings to bring their will back into alignment with God’s will.

      This was done through a ritual that signified that the person (or the whole community) that had sinned recognized and repented from that sin, and committed themselves to no longer engaging in it in the future. By obeying God’s commandment to sacrifice an animal with no blemish, the Israelites honored God’s Law while signifying their willingness to return to living according to God’s commandments.

      In short, the sacrifices were not a penalty for sin. They were a ritual representing the Israelites’ repentance from sin.

      Throughout the entire Bible, you will not find another solution to sin besides repentance. That’s why John the Baptist, Jesus’ disciples, and Jesus himself all preached repentance for the forgiveness of sin. Paul and the rest of the apostles preached the same thing. That, and not some supposed legalistic penalty, was the meaning of the ancient animal sacrifices.

      Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross was what made it possible for us once again to repent from sin, with the power that the victorious Jesus Christ gives us to do so when we open the door to him and let him into our heart and our life. Jesus also said:

      I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. (John 15:5)

      Without the power that Jesus gained over evil and the devil, we have no ability whatsoever to repent from our sins and receive God’s ready forgiveness.

      Reply
    • Lee says:

      January 18, 2018 at 3:37 pm

      Hi Eugenson,

      About people of other religions worshiping other gods:

      You seem to be under the mistaken impression that there is more than one God. Certainly the ancient polytheists of Greece, Rome, and the Middle East believed that. But it is false. There is, and always has been, only one God.

      That God is the Lord God Jesus Christ. There is no other God in heaven to worship.

      Do the people of some religions have some faulty ideas of what that God is like?

      Yes, they do. Many Christians have faulty ideas about what God is like, also.

      But anyone who worships God, and not some wicked or satanic being, is worshiping the only God there is.

      Keep in mind that the Ten Commandments were given to the Israelites. They were told, and understood, that worshiping an image was wrong. Buddhists have no such commandment. So if they innocently worship a statue, they are not breaking God’s commandments to them. Of course, when they enter the afterlife, they will have to cease that sort of worship. But then they will see clearly that the God they have been worshiping has been the Lord God Jesus Christ all along, and they will accept that with joy.

      Once again, there is only one God to worship. Anyone who worships God, and not some evil being, is worshiping the same God.

      Besides, you simply can’t ignore the teaching of Paul and of Jesus Christ himself, which I quoted and linked for you earlier, that people of all nations, including Jews, “Greeks” (pagan polytheists), and Gentiles are saved by Jesus Christ if they do good deeds for their fellow human beings in need in accordance with their conscience.

      The Bible is very clear about this.

      You can’t just ignore what the Bible teaches us in order to fit its words into doctrines invented by Luther and Calvin.

      Reply
    • Lee says:

      January 18, 2018 at 3:54 pm

      Hi Eugenson,

      About salvation, faith, and good works:

      Nowhere does the Bible ever say that good works are not a part of salvation, or do not contribute to our salvation. That is utterly false, and a pure invention of Martin Luther 1,500 years after the Bible was written.

      The Bible never—not in a single passage—says that we are justified or saved by faith alone. In fact, in the only passage in the entire Bible that even mentions faith alone, it is explicitly rejected as justifying, or saving us:

      You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. (James 2:24)

      This is why Luther attempted to get James and several other books of the New Testament removed from the Protestant Bible. Fortunately, he was unsuccessful. However, Luther clearly saw something that his followers are apparently too blind to recognize: That James flatly contradicted his newly invented doctrine of justification by faith alone.

      And once again, that is the only passage in the entire Bible that actually mentions faith alone.

      Protestants commonly read Paul’s letters, especially Romans, Galatians, and Ephesians, as saying that we are justified by faith alone, and not by good works. But Paul never actually says that. In fact, as I’ve already pointed out, in Romans 2 Paul states as clearly as it could possibly be stated that we must do good works, or we will not be saved, and that God saves or condemns people according to their works.

      The confusion comes when Protestants read Paul’s statements about being justified by faith apart from the works of the Law, forgetting or being unaware of the historical and religious context of those statements.

      Short version: Paul was not saying that good works are not required for salvation. That would be contradicting himself. Rather, Paul was saying that it was not necessary to be an observant Jew, keeping the ritual and ceremonial Law of Moses given for the Jews, in order to be saved.

      It’s all laid out very clearly in Acts 15, which I commend to your reading.

      Paul was engaging in a debate with the Jewish Christians in Jerusalem, who believed that Gentile converts to faith in Jesus Christ must become observant Jews, being circumcised and obeying the various dietary and ritual laws, in order to be saved. Paul, one of the Apostles evangelizing in Gentile lands, objected that for those who have faith in Jesus, and follow his teachings, it is not necessary to become observant Jews.

      That’s why wherever Paul talks about being saved by faith without the works of the Law, he always speaks of “circumcision” and “uncircumcision” as well. His point was not that we don’t have do do good work to be saved. His point was that we don’t have to be circumcised, and be observant Jews, to be saved.

      Of course, Paul’s (and Peter’s) argument won, which is the story of Acts 15. Today, nearly 2,000 years later, we tend to forget what Paul was arguing about, and what he meant when he said that we are not saved by “the works of the Law,” or in the shorthand language that he sometimes uses, “works.” But his readers at the time knew exactly what he meant.

      For more on this, please see, once again: “Faith Alone Does Not Save . . . No Matter How Many Times Protestants Say It Does.”

      The idea that good works do not contribute to our salvation is a falsity that is stated nowhere in the Bible. In fact, everywhere in the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, including in the Gospels themselves and in Jesus’ own teaching, we are told that those who do good deeds will be saved, and those who do not, or who do evil deeds, will be damned. Once again, read Matthew 25:31–46. It just can’t get any clearer than that.

      Nowhere does the Bible say that good deeds are the “fruits of faith,” or merely a result of salvation. That is categorically false, and goes contrary to the teaching of the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation.

      I urge you to purge you mind of the false doctrine of justification by faith alone, and read what the Bible actually says: that people who believe in Jesus and follow his commandments will be saved, while those who refuse to live by Jesus’ commandments will be sent to eternal punishment.

      And the two key, central commandments Jesus gives us are to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength and to love our neighbor as ourselves. People of all religions who live by these commandments will find their eternal home in heaven, not in hell.

      That is the teaching of the Bible itself.

      Reply
38. Eugenson says:

    January 18, 2018 at 11:09 pm

    I’m sorry that clearly your mind is made up to follow your false understanding of the Bible. I forgot to mention the Bible verse that says, “…all our righteousness are as filthy rags;….” Isaiah 64:6. You can also read Zech 3:4.

    God has offered us a ready-made righteousness in the person and character of His Son, Jesus, which we have to claim by faith and which He maintains for us through sanctification (a continued life of righteousness marked by good works through the power of the Holy Spirit).

    However, you despise the righteousness of Jesus (the wedding dress) because you believe your righteousness (a filthy rag) is better. I suggest you read the allegorical story Jesus Himself told about the wedding dress in Matt 22:8-14. I recommend you read the entire parable of the wedding feast, but here I’m quoting verses 11 to 13 of Matt 22:

    “And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which hath not on a wedding garment: And he said unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” I hope you won’t be that man before the judgment throne of God. That entire parable was about self-righteousness (your preferred kind of righteousness) versus the righteousness of Jesus.

    About the commandments Jesus gave us; He only summarised the Ten Commandments into man’s obligation to God and man’s obligation to man: “…Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. this is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

    Loving God with all our being requires keeping the first four of the Ten Commandments, (man’s obligation to God) including the fourth one, which is to observe the seventh day Sabbath. Loving our neighbor as ourselves requires keeping the six other commandments that follow (man’s obligation to man). Yes, we’re under obligation to love idol worshippers and warn them of their error and its eternally fatal consequence.

    But that doesn’t put them right with God until they heed our warnings and turn from their idols and worship God and God alone through Jesus: “Jesus answered, ‘I am the way and the truth and the life. NO ONE comes to the Father EXCEPT THROUGH ME.'” “Neither is there salvation in any other: for THERE IS NONE OTHER NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” (John 14:6; Acts 4;12 KJV [emphasis supplied]).

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      January 19, 2018 at 9:42 am

      Hi Eugenson,

      All of this is simply avoiding the fact that you cannot quote a single verse from the Bible saying that we are saved or justified by faith alone, nor can you quote a single verse from the Bible saying that Christ paid the penalty for our sins.

      It is you, my friend, whose mind has been waylaid into a false understanding of the Bible. You base your beliefs on doctrines that are stated nowhere in the Bible, but are flatly contradicted in the plain words of the Bible:

      You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. (James 2:24)

      Acquitting the guilty and condemning the innocent—the Lord detests them both. (Proverbs 17:15)

      I have already responded in detail to your mistaken notions and your mistaken readings of the Bible. Once again, yes, there is no way to the Father except through the Son. That is why both Paul and Jesus himself say that it is Christ who will judge all the nations, and it is Christ who will assign eternal life to Jews, Greeks, and Gentiles who do good deeds according to their conscience.

      Once again, I urge you to abandon the false doctrines of Luther and Calvin, and pay attention to the truth that the Bible itself teaches.

      Reply
      • Gerald DeCaire says:

        January 19, 2018 at 9:50 am

        I never really understood the grace doctrine. It seems to me that not only James, but Christ himself placed a lot of emphasis on our behavior which is no doubt a reflection of what we really believe and what our hearts are really like. Christ himself talked about rewards for those who have done good vs those who have done evil. Sounds an awful lot like works to me. And that’s okay. I believe grace only means that ultimately it is God’s grace that saves despite our works but that salvation comes by way of divine assessment gleaned by our behavior and how we treat others. They’re the flip-side of the same coin.

        Reply
        • Lee says:

          January 19, 2018 at 10:00 am

          Hi Gerald,

          Thanks for stopping by, and for your thoughtful comment.

          I agree with you. The Bible everywhere teaches that in order to saved we must avoid doing evil and do good instead. Grace, which is another word for God’s love and mercy, is a matter of God loving us and giving us the ability to repent from our evil and selfish ways and become good and thoughtful people instead. We don’t do good by our own power. We do good by the power of God’s love and truth working in us and through us. As Jesus said:

          I am the vine, you are the branches . . . . Apart from me you can do nothing. (John 15:5)

          Besides, the Bible simply never says that we are saved by faith alone, or by grace alone. That idea is a human invention, pure and simple.

      • Eugenson says:

        January 19, 2018 at 12:19 pm

        Here are the Bible texts that say we need nothing more than grace to be saved through faith:

        “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Eph 2:8-9).

        “…Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house….” (Acts 16:30-31).

        Faith in the Lord Jesus is ALL it takes to be saved. Did the apostles add any other condition to it when asked what must be done to be saved in the above Bible texts? No.

        Does that mean the saved are expected to keep living immoral lives? Let’s see the answer to that:

        “Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ…for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.” (Gal 2:16-18).

        Again, there’s this one:”Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.”

        It doesn’t take a combination of good works and faith to be saved. It takes faith alone. Then, after freely acquiring, by faith, the gift of salvation from sin (which is the transgression of the law, (1 John 3:4)), the saved no longer transgress the law but live morally upright lives which will naturally result in good works.

        It can’t get simpler than that.

        Reply
        • Lee says:

          January 19, 2018 at 1:34 pm

          Hi Eugenson,

          If what you are saying is true, then why does the Bible never actually say that? Why does the Bible never say:

          “It doesn’t take a combination of good works and faith to be saved. It takes faith alone.”

          Why, in fact, does the Bible never say that we are saved by faith alone? If this were so important, as you say, then at least the Bible should say it once. In fact if it’s so critical to believe that we are saved by faith alone, the Bible should say this many times.

          But it never does. Not even once.

          This alone shows the fallacy and falsity and falsity of the doctrine of salvation by faith alone.

          Ephesians 2:8–9 does not say that we are saved by faith alone, nor does it say that we are saved by grace alone. In fact, it doesn’t even say we are saved by faith. It says we are saved by grace and through faith.

          And then it goes on to say that we are not saved by works, lest anyone should boast. But the “works” that Paul is talking about here are not good works, but the works of the Law, meaning being an observant Jew. This becomes obvious if you simply keep on reading the next few verses:

          For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand to be our way of life.

          So then, remember that at one time you Gentiles by birth, called “the uncircumcision” by those who are called “the circumcision”—a physical circumcision made in the flesh by human hands—remember that you were at that time without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. (Ephesians 2:10–13, italics added)

          First he tells us that good works are what God has prepared for us as our way of life. Obviously he does not mean that we are not required to do good works. He is making it clear in verse 10 that when he says “works” in verse 9, he does not mean good works.

          Then starting in verse 11 he goes on to make it clear what he does mean by “works” in verse 9.

          Why does Paul start talking about “circumcision” and “uncircumcision” in verse 11? What does that have to do with being saved by grace through faith, not of works?

          Paul is here telling us that the “works” he is talking about in verse 9 are the works known as “circumcision.” This was a code word for doing the “works of the Law,” meaning keeping the ritual and ceremonial Law of Moses that distinguished Jews from non-Jews. Jews were to be distinguished from non-Jews by the fact that they were circumcised. And their circumcision was a physical sign that they were to observe all of the ritual and ceremonial laws of Moses.

          In other words, Paul is not saying, “You don’t have to do good works to be saved.” He is saying, “You do not have to be a Jew to be saved. You, as Gentiles, can be saved by having faith in Jesus and following Jesus, without being circumcised, becoming observant Jews, and adhering to the Law of Moses.

          This should be blindingly obvious to anyone who bothers to read the entire passage rather than just a couple of verses yanked out of their context. And it should be obvious to anyone who reads Acts 15 and learns what Paul was arguing about, and what his big debate was with the Jewish Christians in Jerusalem, who said that everyone who becomes a follower of Jesus must be circumcised and become an observant Jew, obeying all of the ritual and ceremonial laws of Moses.

          But because you have been blinded by the doctrine Martin Luther invented—justification by faith alone—you continue to misread, misunderstand, and misinterpret Paul’s message.

          The simple fact of the matter is neither Paul nor anyone else in the Bible ever says that we are justified by faith alone. Neither Paul nor anyone else in the Bible ever says that good works don’t contribute to our salvation.

          The fact of the matter is that Jesus and the Apostles did add other conditions besides mere belief. They said that we must repent for the forgiveness of sins. Do I have to quote all of the passages for you? I will if you persist in denying the plain message of Jesus and his Apostles. Paul himself says so in Romans 2 and many other places. So you are very wrong in saying that they imposed no other conditions besides mere belief.

          Yes, for Christians, belief in Jesus is necessary for salvation, as it says in Acts 16:30–31. But this must be accompanied by action. If it is mere intellectual belief, or “faith” as that word is wrongly used today, then it does not save. Really what Paul and the other Apostles were talking about was not some intellectual faith, but faithfulness to Jesus Christ, which includes following his teachings. See:
          Faith Alone Is Not Faith

          So it’s not just that good works follow faith. It is, as James says as clearly as it could possibly be said, that good works must accompany faith, or it is not faith at all.

          Faith alone is an illusion and a fallacy. It does not exist. There is no such thing as faith alone. And it certainly does not save us.

          Once again, you cannot quote me a single passage from anywhere in the Bible that says that we are saved or justified by faith alone. But I can quote you a passage in the Bible that says plainly that we are not justified by faith alone, and that we are justified by works:

          You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. (James 2:24)

          And I can quote you many passages in which we are told that if we don’t do good works, we cannot be saved, and that we must follow Jesus’ commandments, and the Ten Commandments, in order to be saved. Here are just a few of many, many passages in which Jesus himself tells us this:

          Then someone came to him and said, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:16–17, italics added)

          Then he will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.” And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. (Matthew 25:45–46)

          At that very time there were some present who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. He asked them, “Do you think that because these Galileans suffered in this way they were worse sinners than all other Galileans? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all perish as they did. Or those eighteen who were killed when the tower of Siloam fell on them—do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others living in Jerusalem? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all perish just as they did.” (Luke 13:1–5, italics added)

          Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures, and he said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Messiah is to suffer and to rise from the dead on the third day, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins is to be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. (Luke 24:45–47, italics added)

          And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” (Matthew 28:18–20, italics added)

          Why, in Jesus’ final instructions to his disciples after his Resurrection, did he not say, “And go to all nations, preaching that they must have faith alone and that they are saved through grace alone”?

          Why, instead did he tell them that they must preach repentance for the forgiveness of sins, and that they must teach people to obey everything that I have commanded you?

          Why does Jesus not only never teach salvation by faith alone, but flatly contradicts it? Why does he say that people will go to eternal life or eternal punishment based on whether or not they have done good works for people who are in need? Why does he say that if we do not repent from our sins, we will all perish?

          But the real question is:

          Why did Martin Luther think he could flatly contradict the teachings of Jesus, Paul, James, and everyone else in the Bible, and invent and proclaim the terribly false teaching of justification by faith alone when the entire Bible teaches just the opposite?

          And why do you think that you can deny everything Jesus, Paul, James, Peter, John, and everyone else in the Bible teaches: that we must repent from our sins and do good deeds of love and kindness for our neighbor if we wish to be saved?

          You are very wrong in your beliefs because you are ignoring the plain teachings of the Bible in favor of human-invented doctrines that the Bible utterly rejects.

          Once again, I urge you to abandon the false doctrines of Luther and Calvin, and listen to the Bible’s own plain words and teachings. We are saved through faith (meaning faithfulness), repentance from sin, and obeying the Lord’s commandment to love our neighbor as we love ourselves, which we do by doing good deeds for our fellow human beings who are in need.

          This is the plain teaching of the Bible.

          Why do you resist it?

          Why do you reject it?

          Why do you elevate the teachings of Martin Luther above the teachings of Jesus Christ?

39. Eugenson says:

    January 19, 2018 at 12:08 am

    About there being another god, yes, there’s a god called “the god of this world.” (2 Cor 4:4). That’s the devil. Worse still, he pretends to be the good guy. The Bible says, “This does not surprise us. Even Satan changes himself to look like an angel of light.” (2 Cor 11:14).

    Do you know what the Buddha is? The Buddha is exactly what the devil told Eve in the Garden of Eden that mankind would become if she ate the forbidden fruit. The devil said she would be like God, knowing good and evil.

    Buddhists teach that you don’t have to look outside yourself for a god because you’re the god. They teach that you can attain what they call the state of Buddha by disciplining yourself, torturing your flesh and denying it of the pleasures of life. That image they bow to is believed by them to be the image of the first man who attained the state of Buddha – Siddhartha Gautama.

    They all strive to be like him hence he’s their spiritual model. So whenever Buddhists bow to worship a Buddha, they’re, in effect, worshipping themselves because they’re their own god. All Buddhist are well aware of this. The word, “Buddha,” means the awakened one or the enlightened one. Awakened from what state or enlightened in what way? Of course, awakened from the sleep of spiritual ignorance and enlightened to be like God, knowing good and evil.

    Is that your idea of a legit path to the God of heaven? Let’s not fool ourselves. I can go on about other religions. But I don’t have that time. The truth is glaring.

    If every religion were a legit path to salvation and led to only the One True God, why did God command the Israelites to destroy all the idol-worshipping kingdoms before them as they advanced into Canaan and forbid them from practicing their ways?

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      January 19, 2018 at 9:54 am

      Hi Eugenson,

      The Devil does not prompt people to do good deeds. Jesus’ opponents accused him of doing good deeds (casting out demons) by the power of the Devil. Jesus responded:

      Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand? (Matthew 12:25–26)

      And Jesus also said that it is not our words, but our actions that count:

      Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? In the same way, every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will know them by their fruits. (Matthew 7:15–20, italics added)

      If traditional Buddhists (who are very different from the philosophical Buddhists that predominate in the Western world) are worshiping Satan, then that will be shown in their fruits. Does their God prompt them to steal, kill, lie, commit adultery, and do other evil things? Or does their God prompt them to be honest, truthful, respectful of other people, faithful in their marriages, and do good deeds of love and kindness for their fellow human beings?

      That is the test of whether a person is worshiping God or Satan. It is, as Jesus said, by their fruits that you will know them.

      As for the ancient Israelites, God was moving them past the old polytheistic beliefs and ways because God had chosen them to be the culture through which a new and higher monotheistic message would be delivered to the world.

      The ancient Israelites really weren’t all that different from the cultures around them. In their minds and hearts they were still idol-worshiping polytheists, as is seen in the stories in the Bible about their many back-slidings into idolatry. But God had chosen them in order to accomplish God’s work and deliver God’s message of monotheism to the world. That is why they, unlike the surrounding nations, were forbidden from worshiping idols and from tolerating in their lands the idols and idol-worship of the surrounding nations.

      Reply
40. Eugenson says:

    January 19, 2018 at 12:49 pm

    As for morality without Jesus, there’s a bit of something here for you to chew on. A certain morally sound rich ruler wanted to be saved.

    So he approached Jesus and enquired. Jesus, knowing his history, asked him to live a morally correct life in order to lead him into a deeper conversation, much like He did with the Samaritan woman at Jacob’s well.

    When the ruler confidently announced how morally upright he had been since he was a child, Jesus called out his idolatry, because he had overlooked that one. He worshiped mammon (his wealth). Read it all yourself in Luke 18:18-25.

    You see, that man was not guilty of doing evil things by human standards. In fact, judging by his fruits, as far as eyes could see, he was a very good man. But was he saved without Jesus? No.

    I’m done here.

    A word is enough for the wise.

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      January 19, 2018 at 1:39 pm

      Hi Eugenson,

      The very passage you quote and refer to contradicts your false teaching.

      When the rich young man said that he had kept all of the Ten Commandments from his youth, did Jesus say, “One thing you lack: faith in me”?

      No. He said:

      There is still one thing lacking. Sell all that you own and distribute the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me. (Luke 18:22)

      Jesus did not respond to the rich young man by saying that his keeping of the Ten Commandments was all in vain, and that all that was required was faith alone in Jesus.

      Instead, he gave him another commandment of something that he must do: Sell all his possessions, give the proceeds to the poor, and come and follow Jesus.

      This is not faith alone. This is becoming “more righteous than the scribes and Pharisees.” Far from being mere faith, it is devoting his entire life, and all of his substance, to doing good deeds, helping the poor, and following Jesus, who devoted his life to teaching, preaching, and healing all who were in need and desirous of salvation.

      So the very passage you quote denies and rejects Luther’s false teaching of justification by faith alone.

      When will you start listening to the Bible instead of to Luther?

      Reply
41. Eugenson says:

    January 19, 2018 at 3:59 pm

    Hi Lee,

    What happened to the comment I made before this last one? You didn’t publish that. I hope it wasn’t intentionally ignored. That was the one that addressed salvation by faith alone.

    This last one was in response to your claims that Buddhists and other non-Christian religions are on the right path to God and salvation if they’re morally sound, even without Jesus. You got it all mixed up, which can potentially result in confusing other site visitors who want to know the truth.

    I provided Bible texts that clearly state that we’re saved by grace through faith without works, and that comment was simply not published. Well here are the texts again: I hope this time the comment gets published.

    “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Eph 2:8-9).

    “…Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house….” (Acts 16:30).

    Faith in the Lord Jesus is all it takes to be saved. Did the apostles add any other condition to faith, when asked what must be done to be saved, in that Bible text? No.

    Nothing stopped them from saying, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and DO GOOD WORKS, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” But they didn’t because that would have been untrue.

    Does that mean the saved one is expected to continue living immorally? Let’s see the answer to that:

    “We who are Jews by birth and not ‘Gentile sinners know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

    “If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker.” (Gal 2:15-18).

    “Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.” (Rom 3:31).

    Works are useless before salvation. You can’t get saved by combining works and faith. Instead, after one is saved, by faith, from sin, which is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4), the saved one ceases to transgress the law, which naturally results in a life marked by good works.

    It can’t get any simpler than that.

    Here are other Bible texts that say we’re saved by faith and not by works:
    “He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.” (Mark 16:16).

    “And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace” (Luke 7:50).

    Jesus could have said, “Your faith and the expensive perfume in addition to your weeping and bathing my feet with your tears and wiping them with your hair have saved you; go in peace.”

    I can go on and on. But if you keep denying the truth after seeing these ones, it won’t do any good even if I send you a gazillion Bible texts.

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      January 19, 2018 at 6:19 pm

      Hi Eugenson,

      Apparently the comment of yours that ended out in the spam folder, and that I have now retrieved from there and replied to, is not the one you thought didn’t appear.

      Your previous comment with passages that supposedly say that we’re saved by faith alone was indeed posted here.

      And I had already responded to it here, so I won’t repeat myself in this reply.

      But one more thing. Buddhists and people of other non-Christian religions are not saved “without Jesus,” as you say here. It is still Jesus Christ who saves them. That is what Paul says in Romans 2:1–16 (see especially verse 16). And that is what Jesus says in Matthew 25:31–46. So please stop contradicting the Bible by saying that people from other religions are saved “without Jesus.”

      Reply
42. Eugenson says:

    January 19, 2018 at 4:04 pm

    P.S.

    Actually, I thought I was done with you until I observed you didn’t post my last comment. But this is it eventually.

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      January 19, 2018 at 4:10 pm

      Hi Eugenson,

      For some reason that comment got put in the spam folder. It is now posted.

      Reply
    • Lee says:

      January 19, 2018 at 6:27 pm

      Hi Eugenson,

      It turns out that the comment of yours that was (automatically) put in the spam folder looks to be the first comment you posted here. I have now restored it and replied to it.

      Reply
43. Sheri-Lynn Coughlin says:

    July 11, 2018 at 11:32 am

    I’m very confused on what is sin so many people have so many views i’m just sick to my stomach because I do not know. I realize the ten commandments but what else is sin I have tattoo’s is that a sin? I smoke which I’m gonna try hard not to and I don’t smoke much but will that send me to hell? I have a medical license for weed (which I only smoke a small amount in evening) is that a sin? I drink few glasses of wine at night to relax is that a sin? I take lots of medication because I have chronic pain is that a sin? I really want to find my way but it’s so hard for me to understand everything.

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      July 11, 2018 at 2:44 pm

      Hi Sheri-Lynn,

      Thanks for stopping by, and for your comment and questions.

      The basic meaning of sin doing things that you know are wrong, harmful, and against God’s commandments. As you mention, the main things we are not supposed to do are listed in the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments, viewed from a deeper level, cover the most important do’s and don’ts for our spiritual and eternal life. See:
      The Ten Commandments: Our Spiritual Inventory List

      The more harm something does, the more evil and sinful it is if we do it—especially if we do it knowing that we shouldn’t. The things you mention are mostly personal habits that, though some of them may cause some health problems (especially smoking), don’t rise to the level of the things prohibited in the Ten Commandments. So if they are sins, then they are very mild ones. And most of them aren’t sins at all.

      Aside from knowing that something is wrong, sin also involves bad intentions such as a desire to dominate, deceive, and abuse other people, and a desire for wealth, possessions, and personal pleasure even if we have to cheat and hurt other people to get them.

      None of the things you mention involve those types of bad intentions. None of them are the sort of thing that would cause you to end out in hell. Smoking really is a bad idea, but it’s more of a personal vice than a sin. And if drinking wine is a sin, then even Jesus is in trouble! So other than taking care of your physical and mental health, I wouldn’t worry too much about these types of things.

      About tattoos specifically, see:
      Is Getting Tattoos a Sin against God?

      And for a more in-depth look at the meaning of sin based on how that word is used in the Bible, see:
      God, Forgiveness, Freedom, and Hell – Part 4

      Reply
      • Sheri-Lynn Coughlin says:

        July 11, 2018 at 2:52 pm

        Thank you so much for replying I have been driving myself crazy over this and yes I agree smoking is not good I only smoke about 5 a day but still it is something I am really gonna try and work on. I love your articles I’m just starting to learn and I find it all very hard to understand in the bible and reading your stuff makes it more simple to understand. I do have a friend who is all about God and Jesus but he lives with his girlfriend when I got tattoo he sent a verse in bible about not marking your body but yet he lives with his girlfriend and when I brought that to his attention he said Jesus died for my sins so that really confused me. I also got a tattoo of a little Owl and just now finding out that it’s considered evil but I had no idea of that I really like owls because they made me feel safe because I felt they watched and protect people at night.

        Reply
        • Lee says:

          July 11, 2018 at 3:14 pm

          Hi Sheri-Lynn,

          I would suggest not listening to this friend of yours on religious subjects. This is just the sort of unbiblical nonsense that conservative Christianity puts into people’s heads. If I sin, it’s okay, because Jesus died for my sins. But if someone else sins, that’s terrible and they’re going straight to hell. This has nothing to do with anything taught in the Bible.

          These are complicated subjects. I can’t do justice to them here. But I would encourage you to read the article about tattoos, just to put your mind at ease on that one. Many rules given in the Bible were given specifically to the ancient Israelites for cultural reasons, and are no longer binding on us today. I presume your friend does not sacrifice a cow or a dove when he sins against God. That’s something the ancient Israelites were commanded to do, but Christians are no longer required to do.

          Unfortunately, conservative Christians just sort of pick and choose which commandments they think we have to keep and which ones we no longer have to keep based on their own opinions and their own culture. There’s no real rhyme or reason to it. That’s why I suggest you simply don’t listen to him on religious subjects.

        • Gerald DeCaire says:

          July 11, 2018 at 3:34 pm

          Best advice yet. “The letter kills.” Thanks for pointing that out Lee.

        • Lee says:

          July 11, 2018 at 4:25 pm

          Hi Gerald,

          I can’t really take credit for that one! 😀 But thanks. And thanks for the thoughts in your other recent comment as well.

        • Sheri-Lynn Coughlin says:

          July 11, 2018 at 4:03 pm

          Yes I will take that advise. So basically living with someone who you are not married to is a sin right? I have done this obviously but now separated from my boyfriend because he got into bad drugs he tells me he is going to change which hasn’t happened yet but I don’t want to completely turn my back on him. If he was to get of the drugs and we work things out than I’m assuming that would be a sin unless I married him. I’m sorry for all the questions I have been searching my entire life for the truth and a lot of reasons why I turned away from the bible is because the way a lot of people acted towards other people who were suppose to be Christians I than turned to mediums. I am also confused with now what music I cannot listen to and what TV shows I cannot watch because I was told all actors are sinners and most music comes from Satan.

        • Lee says:

          July 11, 2018 at 4:15 pm

          Hi Sheri-Lynn,

          It sounds like some very conservative, fundamentalist Christians have been telling you things and putting things into your head about all sorts of things being sins. And while that might be fine for people who can’t think in anything other than black and white, fundamentalists really don’t understand the Bible very well, even though they’re constantly thumping it. Most of their key beliefs are not even taught in the Bible, as the above article, and the ones linked from it, point out. So once again, please don’t listen to these people. They have a very low-level and materialistic understanding of Christianity, and that causes them to focus on the letter rather than on the spirit of the Bible.

          About living together before you’re married, though it’s not the ideal, believe it or not, the Bible actually does not prohibit this. The Bible prohibits adultery, which is having sex when one or both of you is married to someone else. But it’s much more pragmatic about non-adulterous extramarital sex. For more on this, please see:
          Is Sex Before Marriage Forbidden in the Bible?

          Short version: Though I don’t particularly recommend it, the Bible simply doesn’t say that sex outside of marriage is a sin. It discourages it, but doesn’t actually prohibit it.

          About breaking up with your boyfriend due to the drugs, that, unfortunately, is just something you have to do in order to avoid getting dragged into a very dark place yourself. As you say, he needs to get himself off the drugs, and be very solid in that, before you can even think about getting back together with him. And that’s his own choice and responsibility. You can encourage him to get the help he needs to get clean, but he’ll have to make that choice, take the needed steps, and do the hard work himself. And you should not be any sort of sponsor or mentor to him through this process. That must be someone else’s job.

          About mediums, I would simply suggest that you not uncritically accept everything they say. Just because it’s a spirit saying it, that doesn’t mean it’s right. There are many evil and deceptive spirits, and they are very good at pretending to be enlightened angels. So don’t believe them uncritically any more than you would believe some stranger on the street, who may or may not know what he (or she) is talking about. For more on this, see:
          What about Spiritualism? Is it a Good Idea to Contact Spirits?

        • Sheri-Lynn Coughlin says:

          July 11, 2018 at 4:39 pm

          Well what is fornication than?

        • Lee says:

          July 11, 2018 at 4:43 pm

          Hi Sheri-Lynn,

          Fornication can include extramarital sex. But as used in the Bible, it’s usually talking about more serious sexual wrongs, such as using the services of prostitutes.

    • Gerald DeCaire says:

      July 11, 2018 at 3:08 pm

      I’ve got the best command of all Sheri: Love God and love your neighbor. “Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” Matthew 22:35–40 and Mark 12:28–34. I want you Sheri to pay attention to the last sentence in that quote by Jesus: “On these two commandments hang all the law and prophets.” So my advice is to stop tearing yourself apart with the details. If I got a nickel for every Christian who doesn’t smoke or drink but who also doesn’t love their fellow man I’d be rich. And here’s another point, they probably don’t love God either since according to Scripture you cannot love God whom you cannot see if you cannot love your brother whom you can see. Now you may be asking yourself, how can i better love God? That’s easy. Love your neighbor. Refer to Matthew 25. Be loving and caring and giving and sacrificial to others around you. you’ll get closer to God, I promise you. But it’s a hard thing to do but even harder still is loving your enemy. Jesus referred to that as a sort of state of perfection when he added, be then perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect. So stop ripping yourself apart about legalities and lots of confusing rhetoric. Just love. That’ll spare you a lot of grief. And your focus is inappropriate but definitely reminiscent of right-wing politics in religion. Stop worrying about hell. Isn’t that selfish? Only worrying about where you’ll end up when Jesus was so clear about the things we should most be concerned for…our brothers and sisters! Love God and love people and everything will fall into place. If anyone says otherwise, then their heart is in the wrong place. Take that to the bank as well as heaven.

      Reply
44. vince caruso says:

    December 16, 2018 at 10:52 am

    You state: No matter how hard you search, you will not find a single passage in the entire Bible that says anything about Jesus paying the penalty for our sins.

    First Webster defines propitiation as something that propitiates -specifically : an atoning sacrifice. Further atonement is defined as to make amends; to provide or serve as reparation or compensation for something bad or unwelcome

    With that in mind ALL of these versus state specifically (not imply) that Christ death atoned for sins.

    Romans 3:25 – Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

    2 Corinthians 5:21 – For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

    Hebrews 2:17 – Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

    1 John 2:1-2 – My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

    1 John 4:10 – Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins.

    1 Peter 3:18 – For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      December 16, 2018 at 2:42 pm

      Hi vince,

      Thanks for stopping by, and for your comment.

      However, “propitiation” is an English word, not a Greek or Hebrew word. And it does not fully or properly represent the initial concept in the Old Testament, which is the basis for the statements about it in the New Testament.

      In the Old Testament, the word כָּפַר (kaphar), which is the most common word that is translated into English as “propitiation,” does not mean a payment or penalty for sins, but rather a merciful covering of sins by the Lord. This is the basis for the New Testament concept of propitiation also. For more on this, please see my answer to this question on Christianity StackExchange:

      How did Swedenborg interpret 1 John 2:2: “He is the propitiation for our sins”?

      Because traditional Christianity has misunderstood the nature of propitiation in the Bible, it has also mistranslated it and related concepts in the Bible in many of the popular translations of the Bible. For example, the Old Testament sin offerings were not “penalties for sin,” as translated in the New Revised Standard Version and New International Version version of Leviticus. This is a serious mistranslation of the Hebrew text.

      I should also mention that 2 Corinthians 5:21, which is commonly quoted to support substitutionary atonement and penal substitution, has been badly mintranslated as well. Here is how it should be translated, as found in the Mounce version:

      He made him who knew no sin to be a sin-offering for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

      Both the original Hebrew of the Old Testament and the Greek of the Septuagint—which is the basis for much of the New Testament’s vocabulary—use the same word for “sin” and “sin offering.” In 2 Corinthians 5:21, the Greek word hamartia is used in its sense of “a sin offering.” This is clear from the context. And as I just said, sin offerings in the Old Testament were not penalties for sin. However, explaining this fully will have to wait for an intended article on sacrifice that I will post here at some time in the future.

      In short, the passages you quote have nothing to do with Jesus paying the penalty for our sin. Reading them that way is a serious misunderstanding of the meaning of the original Hebrew and Greek words and concepts.

      Reply
45. Sleepy Alligator says:

    December 17, 2018 at 8:40 pm

    I would add a couple to your list:

    Immortal soul.

    “stand with Israel”

    You mention 1 Cor. 15. That chapter is almost never taught in any church I’ve ever had anything to do with. Our physical resurrection. “Dying and going to heaven” isn’t heavily taught in scripture.

    You’re so right about inerrancy.

    “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God”. Faith is not faith in faith but faith in God to do God’s will through us. Not my will but His. Few people live not by their own will. It is a call far different than it is portrayed. Faith, the kind that someone broken has as a last hope after a life of selfishness leading to brokenness of life, however lost their cause, can and does save, and if the person lives long enough, she can do good deeds because she is empowered by God within her, even if she doesn’t have works. There is gestation periods, as well as opportunity. Not everyone can afford to live life as simply a do-gooder. Do any of the things we support support something inhumane? Truly doing nothing but good in this world might just be impossible. A journey, not a destination.

    Paul says “Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God” whereas James says “You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone.” The Bible is not without contradictions, but full of them. There are many brilliant minds with theology on one side and the other. It’s not an irreconcilable paradox, but there are others.

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      December 18, 2018 at 11:53 am

      Hi Sleepy Alligator,

      Thanks for stopping by, and for your thoughts.

      About our immortal soul, the Bible’s statements on this have to be read with their original audience in mind. 1 Corinthians 15 is focused first and foremost on assuring its readers and hearers that there actually is a resurrection. This was not at all taken for granted. Much of the Old Testament does not presuppose any afterlife at all. In Jesus’ time, as is well-known, the Sadducees continued to deny the resurrection precisely because there was no clear teaching to that effect in the accepted Hebrew Bible. The book of Daniel is about as close as it gets, and it was a late book, not full accepted by the Jews as one of the Prophets.

      Paul’s audience, then, first had to be convinced that there was an afterlife at all.

      And then there was the problem of their “fleshly,” materialistic thinking. Most of them had no real concept of any spiritual realm. They thought that this physical, material earth was all that existed. Therefore if they didn’t believe in a physical resurrection, they would reject an afterlife altogether. That’s why Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians 15 are somewhat difficult to parse as to what, exactly he is saying. He is attempting to establish a spiritual resurrection for people who don’t believe in spirit. So it comes out sounding partly like we will be resurrected in a glorified physical body, and partly like we will be resurrected in an entirely new spiritual body that is non-physical.

      This, once again, was necessary so that physical-minded people could still believe that there is an afterlife, and live their lives accordingly.

      But the truth is that there is indeed a spiritual (non-physical) afterlife in a spiritual (non-physical) world, where we have a spiritual body that is just as real and tangible to our senses there as our physical body is to our senses here. If this were not true, than many of the things Jesus said would make no sense.

      For example, he told the thief on the cross, “Today you will be with me in paradise” (Luke 23:43). That would not be possible if there were no other realm, because we know that Jesus was not present in this world immediately after their deaths, nor did any paradise appear here on earth in any time frame that could be called “today” on the day of Jesus’ crucifixion.

      Jesus also said:

      And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God, “I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob”? He is God not of the dead, but of the living. (Matthew 22:31–32)

      If Abram, Isaac, and Jacob are not now living in another realm—the spiritual world—this makes no sense.

      And one more example for now. In Luke 16:19–31 Jesus tells the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. In the parable, two people, one wealthy, one poor, die and move on to another realm, where the rich man is tormented while the poor man is accepted into Abraham’s bosom. In the course of the parable, the rich man begs God to send Lazarus to warn his brothers who are still alive. All of this makes no sense whatsoever if there is not an immediate resurrection into another realm, where we have a tangible existence.

      Yes, there is a Last Judgment, but that takes place in the spiritual world, where people have already gathered and have been living their lives. That is a whole different issue than our resurrection into the spiritual world.

      About faith alone, please see:
      Faith Alone Does Not Save . . . No Matter How Many Times Protestants Say It Does

      And about Christians standing by the state of Israel, that makes no sense to me. Israel is a secular state, even if it has religious backing. Why should Christians be supporting a secular state whose primary linkage is to Judaism? The existence of Israel is a political issue, not a spiritual issue. The idea that the modern state of Israel is somehow part of biblical prophecy is based on a materialistic and literalistic reading of Scripture that pays more attention to the letter that kills than to the spirit that gives life.

      Reply
46. tammi85 says:

    July 8, 2019 at 1:50 pm

    Hi I’m curious about your take on this video about Swedenborg I just watched?

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      July 8, 2019 at 5:16 pm

      Hi tammi85,

      It’s an interesting interview. Both the interviewer, Jeffery Mishlove, and the person being interviewed, Gary Lachman, are into esotericism and the occult, so that’s what they especially see and emphasize in Swedenborg’s life and writings. My emphasis, as you can see from my articles here, is rather different. But as the saying goes, “Different strokes for different folks.” If people who are into esotericism and the occult find something helpful in Swedenborg, I have no problem with that.

      I will say, though, that some of the heavy linking of Swedenborg with various occult movements of the time rests on a rather thin foundation of evidence. Marsha Schuchard in her analysis of Swedenborg has attempted to make major connections between Swedenborg and various esoteric schools such as the Kabbalists, the Masons, and so on. Other Swedenborg scholars (and not only the Swedenborgian ones) believe that she’s making rather too much of a few hints in that direction in the documents and historical records of the time.

      It is true that Swedenborg had contact with some people who were part of these movements. But his mind was focused heavily on science in his earlier years, and though Lachman is right that the line between scientific and esoteric knowledge was nowhere near as cut-and-dried then as it is today, esoteric knowledge just wasn’t Swedenborg’s focus until much later in his life. And by that time he began to have his own spiritual experiences that eclipsed any prior contact with occult movements that he may have had. Plus, what he actually wrote in his later theological writings doesn’t bear all that much resemblance to the Kabbala, Masonic thought, and so on, even if there are some common themes.

      Also, the common report that Swedenborg went insane at the time of his transition from being a scientist and philosopher to being a theologian, tore off his clothes and rolled in the mud, and so on, are based mostly on an account written by the Rev. Aaron Mathesius, who was a dyed-in-the-wool Lutheran and a sworn enemy of Swedenborg. This account was published in John Wesley’s publication The Arminian Magazine a decade after Swedenborg’s death, and from there was spread around and repeated. But those who investigated Mathesius’s account could find no basis for it whatsoever. Mathesius appears to have fabricated the whole thing in order to discredit Swedenborg. Ironically, Mathesius himself later went insane as he was about to preach a sermon in his church, and had to be removed from his pastorate.

      It is true that Swedenborg went through great inner turmoil, which he recounts in his personal journals of the time. But outwardly, no one noticed any difference in his demeanor or behavior. Later in the interview, Gary Lachman does emphasize Swedenborg’s rootedness and rationality. That was all anyone ever saw of Swedenborg from the outside. As Lachman says, compared to many wild accounts of mystical experiences, Swedenborg’s descriptions of his spiritual experiences are so rationalistic and understated that many people find them downright boring to read. But for those who are interested in approaching spiritual realities from a rational perspective, they are pure gold.

      One thing that isn’t covered in the interview is what Swedenborg probably would have considered the most important thing of all, and that is that Swedenborg, his writings, and his theology are strongly Christian in orientation. This doesn’t fit into the general esoteric and occult worldview, so people who speak about Swedenborg from that perspective usually downplay it or omit it altogether. But missing the Christian nature of Swedenborg’s writings and theology is missing the heart of both his spiritual experiences and his teachings.

      According to Swedenborg’s own account of it, his transition from scientist to seer happened, not because he practiced yogic breathing techniques and explored hypnagogic states, but because the Lord God Jesus Christ appeared to him and commissioned him to begin a new work of explaining the spiritual meaning of the Bible and delivering to the world a new and truly Christian theology that would replace the old, corrupt, and false “Christian” theology that had come to dominate the Christian world.

      I do think that Gary Lachman’s work is very thoughtful. His biography of Swedenborg is worth reading, especially if you have any contact or conversation with people who are into mystical and occult views and practices. You just have to be aware that Lachman approaches Swedenborg from a particular angle, which is not the angle or the emphasis that Swedenborg himself puts forward in his theological writings.

      If there’s anything in the interview that you’re wondering about that I didn’t cover, please feel free to continue the conversation.

      Reply
47. Foster Caldaroni says:

    July 8, 2019 at 8:32 pm

    Was Swedenborg an occultist, or did occult views come out of his theology?
    I always thought of him as a Christian
    Did he for instance believe in the Baphomet. “as above so below” like they mention in this video? Was he a member of the Illuminati or any other Secret Societies while alive?

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      July 9, 2019 at 12:41 am

      Hi Foster,

      Swedenborg was a Christian.

      It is true that some occultists and New Age people have looked to Swedenborg as “one of theirs.” However, they can do so only by ignoring the vast bulk of what he wrote, which focused heavily on Christian doctrine and on Bible interpretation.

      Various people, including some scholars, have claimed that Swedenborg belonged to various secret societies. But there’s very little evidence for this. Certainly he knew and was acquainted with a wide variety of people, some of whom probably were involved in secret societies. But he himself doesn’t seem to have participated in them, and certainly not for any length of time if he ever did attend any of their meetings. He doesn’t talk about them in his public or private writings, and what he does write doesn’t sound much like the stuff that comes out of secret societies.

      “As above, so below” may have become an occult and satanic saying, but it was not original to them. In Christian writings, the line in the Lord’s prayer, “On earth as it is in heaven,” or more literally translated, “as in heaven, so upon the earth,” expresses the same idea. Swedenborg did believe that things on earth reflect spiritual things, which, in turn, reflect the nature of God. But this was based on Christian thought and writing, and on the Bible, not on any occult or secret societies.

      It is unlikely that Swedenborg had ever heard of Baphomet. He was, of course, familiar with the pagan gods portrayed in the Bible and in Greek and Roman mythology, some of which were evil figures. But that is just a matter of common knowledge.

      Swedenborg was steeped in Christian theology and culture, and remained strongly Christian all his life, even if he reinterpreted much of Christian doctrine in his theological writings.

      Reply
48. Bethany says:

    April 12, 2020 at 2:40 pm

    How are we supposed to repent of all our sin when there is sin we don’t even know we commit? I have horrible anxiety and think that I’m sinning all the time.

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      April 13, 2020 at 1:29 am

      Hi Bethany,

      Thanks for stopping by, and for your comment and question.

      Please know that the Lord does not condemn us for “sins” that we don’t realize we are committing. In fact, they aren’t even sins, because sin is intentionally doing what we know is wrong and against God’s commandments. That’s why Jesus said to the Pharisees, “If you were blind, you would not have sin. But now that you say, ‘We see,’ your sin remains” (John 9:41). So if we don’t realize we’re doing something wrong, it can’t be sin, and we are not condemned for it, even if it may cause problems for ourselves and the people around us. As Jesus also said:

      The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. (Luke 12:47-48)

      I would suggest that you focus on the wrongs that you know you’re committing, and work on overcoming them. The Lord will show you your secret faults when he sees that you are ready to face and overcome them.

      Meanwhile, you may find this article helpful:
      If You Think You’re Going to Hell, Please Read This First

      Reply
49. Moore Whittington says:

    May 25, 2020 at 2:55 pm

    I have a question, what makes a person unable to repent in Hell? if they truly wanted to repent after seeing and feeling what evil they’ve done, wouldn’t our loving God hear them? He’s just so obviously they would have to have some kind of “punishment “but isn’t the only unforgivable sin the blasphemy of our own spirit? Hoping to cease to exist?

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      May 26, 2020 at 3:29 am

      Hi Moore,

      It’s not so much that they’re unable to repent, as that they’re unwilling to repent. They have already made their choice for evil, and they have no desire whatsoever to change. The only thing that keeps them under some restraint is the punishment that inevitably follows their evil actions.

      Technically speaking, what happens at death is that the “envelope” (Latin: limbus), or perhaps “skin,” of our spiritual self, which Swedenborg says consists of “the finest things of nature” becomes fixed and unchangeable. We can change the “natural” part of ourselves only here on earth. Once we die, since we are in the spiritual world, we no longer have access to it, and it cannot change. This forms the boundaries of what we can be as a person.

      Spiritually speaking, what happens is that the “ruling love,” or primary motivation, that we have chosen here on earth becomes settled and unchangeable at death. However, our ruling love is not formed just by our last state before death, but by our entire life pursuant to the goals we have chosen, and the goals that we stick with to the end of our earthly life.

      This “ruling love” is entirely within our own control. It is formed by our own choice. No external circumstances, good or bad, have any significant effect upon it. There is no unfairness about it. Our ruling love is a result of our use of the spiritual freedom that God has given us as an integral part of our humanity.

      Why does the choice have to be permanent?

      When we consider things in the light of eternity, anything temporary is unreal compared to things that are permanent. Even if something lasts a trillion trillion years, if it then goes out of existence, it is still nothing compared to the eternity that follows. If we humans can make a choice between good and evil, but it is only a temporary choice, and eventually we’ll end out good instead, then our freedom is illusory, not real.

      For angels, this situation would be intolerable. It would mean that they would always have to fear for their salvation and their eternal life, because there would always be the possibility that they might at some future date choose to go to hell instead of heaven. They could never rest secure in their beautiful life in heaven and in their relationships with other people and with God.

      For evil spirits in hell, though it might seem that it would be good for them to be able to change their minds, it would also mean that the choices they made previously wouldn’t have any real meaning. They, too, could not be secure in the life that they had chosen. And Swedenborg reports that evil spirits have no desire whatsoever to go to heaven, and live a different life, even if they are given the opportunity to see what life in heaven is like for the angels who live there. They enjoy their favorite evil actions, and they don’t want to stop enjoying them. Having those pleasures taken away from them would feel like death, and in fact, it would cause their death, because it would be the annihilation of the person they have chosen to be.

      For more on this, please start reading at the section titled, “What’s wrong with reincarnation?” in the article, “The Bible, Emanuel Swedenborg, and Reincarnation.”

      Reply
50. WillG says:

    February 19, 2021 at 3:49 pm

    Hi Lee, I wanted to take a moment to say I really appreciate your thoughtful, thorough, respectful responses. I did want to offer two comments:

    1.) Plain Verses/Commands– A pattern I see in your writings and comments very often: “why does the Bible never actually say that? Why does the Bible never say” etc.
    Fair question, its not an unimportant observation. But it is inconsistent with scripture and even how Jesus taught:

    Matthew 13:10–17
    10 Then the disciples came and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” 11 And he answered them, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.

    Luke 24:45
    Then [Jesus] opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures

    1 Cor 1:23
    But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

    So, that a truth is not explained in plain language (which seems absolutely critical to you) is no argument at all to prove biblical truth or untruth. Furthermore, per scripture, our human understand is of no value in spiritual matters: God must reveal it to us. So in short, all the times you say, “the Bible doesn’t specifically say”, is simply not a valid defense/argument. You need to find a more substantive hermeneutic.

    2.) Faith Alone, Not Works — This good news I feel very passionate about (as does Paul, it seems!) Paul’s entire argument in Romans 1-3 is that by all measures (Greek, Jew, lawful, lawless) all humanity is condemned under the law, ergo, keeping the law in any way is of no use to earn salvation.

    Paul’s love chapter in 1st Corinthians is the capstone:
    1 Cor. 13
    1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

    You can have every good work under the sun but if we have not love, we earn nothing. Why? Because love is the sign of a changed heart, a transformed heart by being born again, by believing the good news of Christ, that he was the final, perfect sacrifice, the Messiah the entire world needed to have sins atoned for.

    This understanding completely agrees with:
    Matt 7:22
    Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

    Gal 3:1-3
    3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
    2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
    3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

    Paul is clearly disparaging foolish faith in man’s effort (the flesh) i.e. works.

    Christians are under the law of love now. John says in John 1, if we love him, we will keep his commandments. So yes, good works, obedience, is absolutely a fruit, a product of a changed heart, salvation, quite clearly. James also says (from the negative view point), one says he has faith, but he has no works, can that FAITH (invalid faith, which will not lead to fruit) save? Again faith apart from works saves, and saving faith will bring evidence of such in the fruit of good works.

    Our good works play no part in the granting of salvation by God to us by grace. We were cursed and Christ became a curse for us, that his righteousness could be applied to our account. Christ’s good works (not ours) were what secured this transaction and satisfied God’s perfect justice and wrath.

    I do pray for you and all who might read this good news Eph. 1:17-18
    17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

    18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints

    Without the Spirit of Truth and Revelation, the Holy Spirit opening our eyes, we will not understand. May God give us the spirit of grace to see and understand his perfect truth.

    Reply
    • Lee says:

      February 20, 2021 at 7:57 am

      Hi WillG,

      Thanks for stopping by, and for your kind words.

      In my experience, most Protestants who come here saying “faith alone, not works,” and then quote a whole bunch of Bible passages that say no such thing, are hit-and-runs who aren’t coming back.

      Just in case you do come back, I have a simple question for you:

      Do you think that human beings are better than God at speaking God’s truth to God’s own people?

      Uzzah took it upon himself to reach out his hand and steady the ark of God. God struck him dead on the spot for his presumption (2 Samuel 6:6–7). When human theologians think they can “steady the ark of God” with their “more substantive hermeneutics,” it is only because God is merciful that they, too, are not struck dead on the spot.

      Faith Alone Does Not Save . . . No Matter How Many Times Protestants Say It Does

      Reply