Can Gang Members Go to Heaven? (Is Life Fair?)

A couple years ago a Swedenborg reader named Sue from San Francisco asked me a question. She had been thinking about an incident in which a 17-year-old gang member from Oakland had been shot and killed in a San Francisco ghetto.

Her question?

How is life fair when some kids grow up in comfortable, loving households while others grow up with poverty, violence, and abuse? Don’t kids who were loved and cared for have a better chance at heaven than those who experienced violence and neglect instead of love?

My first response was that no person who dies in their childhood or teen years goes to hell. They are all raised by loving and wise angel parents, and grow up to become angels in heaven themselves.

Why is that?

And what about those who make it to adulthood? Given that there is not a level playing field here on earth, is life really fair?

The key to understanding God’s eternal justice is conscience. If we live according to our own conscience we will go to heaven, not to hell. But that needs some explaining.

Sue from San Francisco asked:

Dear Lee:

San Francisco has its ghettos and project housing and I’ve often thought their location was especially cruel. The residents of our projects have million dollar views of nearly the entire Bay Area to mess with their minds. Many feel so segregated that they have no hope of joining the beautiful regions of SF. It’s bad enough to live in abject poverty. It’s torture to do so adjacent to the wealthiest, most beautiful region on earth. (It’s sort of complicated but my work has me traveling down there a lot these days.)

The project housing in Hunter’s Point is dilapidated such that many of the structures have been red-flagged as uninhabitable. Even so, people squat in the abandoned barracks. The city has little control over the tenants. Even in active, in-use units most windows are boarded over. The only paint on these structures comes in the form of graffiti, and very vile graffiti at that. The pathetic plant life—patches of unruly weeds and a few diseased trees—is actually to be admired considering the toxic chemicals polluting the soil. (This area was an old navy ship yard.)

Crime has dissipated, but there was a time when gunfire was so rampant that the police installed sensors everywhere to help them determine the origin of gunfire. This tool allowed them to pinpoint which housing units were involved.

Two years ago, a 17-year-old kid came over to SF from Oakland on a cold January night in order to kill one of the members of the Hunter’s Point housing project. Instead, this young man was himself shot at 2 a.m. and keeled over into the weeds where he’d staked his position. It was an insidiously cold night. Not so cold as to pull one into a merciful sleepy death, but cold enough to invade the bones and make a person mightily uncomfortable.

The sensors notified the cops that shots had been fired in that area. The cops, however, upon going to the scene in the dark, did not see the injured Oakland kid. Believing that the gunfire was random without causing injury, the cops drove off. The Oakland kid’s body was found in the morning. The coroner ruled that the shots were not immediately fatal but did impair him. He had lain awake or semi-conscious for approximately 3 hours before finally dying at around 5 a.m.

I think about that Oakland kid. I wonder what he thought about when he was lying in the weeds. I wonder what he wished for. I wonder what he regretted. I wonder if he thought about God. What a miserable way to die at such a young age after such a harsh existence on earth!

We are born into the natural world with a mission, so to speak, to regenerate [be spiritually reborn] into better people. If we exercise our free will to regenerate, the regeneration process takes time.

It seems to me that life is unfair in this regard, and it is sort of where I take issue with God. A person born into a loving, healthy family will have greater odds of regenerating, growing into a loving healthy adult, and thus living a life that leads them to heaven.

Some people, however, have the bad luck to be born into bleak circumstances. They never knew love. They were never given love. They were neglected. How can a person love if as a child or young adult they never experienced love? Some people are in situations where they must struggle just to survive: kill or be killed. Some people have only experienced subjugation, so not knowing any different, they in turn subjugate others.

Is not our place in the spirit world dependent upon how we lived our life in love and charity to others here in the natural world? I believe a person has to experience love and charity in order to be able to give it. To offer up a specific example, what about that gangbanger who got shot to death in the projects at age 17? What can that person expect in the afterlife if he never knew love here? And had no incentive or opportunity to regenerate?

I recognize the need for freedom and why God allows it, but it strikes me as an exceedingly unfair system where children are concerned. Some people get a head start on the path to a good afterlife. Others get no chance at all.

My response:

Hi Sue,

Great question!

First, let’s be clear on one thing. God doesn’t send anyone to hell. We send ourselves to heaven or to hell by what we choose as our motives and beliefs, and by the things we do based on those motives and beliefs. (For more on this, see the article, “Is There Really a Hell? What is it Like?”)

How does God’s judgment work?

Despite appearances, the surprising truth is that God’s judgment is not about condemning us, or even about exonerating us. It’s about shining the clear light of divine truth on our hearts, minds, and lives so that we and everyone else can see clearly whether we have made ourselves innocent or guilty by the way we have lived our life. If we have made ourselves guilty by living a selfish, greedy life regardless of how it hurts anyone else, we will have judged ourselves to hell, and that is where we will go of our own free will.

There is plenty of support for this in the Bible, but this is not the place to get into it. For now I’ll just give you one great example of how the Bible puts the ball solidly in our court as to whether we live or die—which spiritually means whether we go to heaven or to hell. Moses is speaking to the people on behalf of God:

“Look here! Today I have set before you life and what’s good versus death and what’s wrong. . . . Now choose life—so that you and your descendants will live.” (Deuteronomy 30:15, 19. Read the whole passage: Deuteronomy 30:11-22.)

Now about your question, here are a few basic principles:

  1. The default option is heaven.
  2. People can go to hell only if they consciously choose to do so.
  3. That choice must be made as a self-responsible adult.
  4. All children who die are raised by angels and become angels themselves.

Children and teens who die go to heaven

Your gangbanger who gets shot at 17 will end out in heaven, not in hell, no matter what he’s done. He is not yet an adult, and he is not held responsible for the influences that have made him into who he is without his choice or consent.

It’s a fuzzy line exactly when someone actually becomes an adult and is truly responsible for his or her own choices. Swedenborg seems to like the Old Testament formula of adulthood starting at age 20 (see, for example, Numbers 1:1-3; 14:26-35; Leviticus 27:1-8). I tend to think it is the time when we become independent from our parents and self-supporting. In the case of teens who end out taking care of themselves sooner than they ought to because they’re not brought up in a good family or atmosphere, I tend to think it still doesn’t happen until they hit 20 or so.

I believe teens are still acting largely in reaction to their circumstances, and don’t start making lasting, inner choices for themselves until they’re out of their teenage years.

Thinking about all the babies and children dying of disease and starvation all around the world, it is a terrible situation, and one that should be corrected. It really is best if we humans can grow up in this world, reach adulthood, and make a conscious choice about where we will live to eternity. Besides, no child should have to suffer like that.

However, all of those children who die in terrible circumstances will receive the kind of full and loving care that they could not be provided with here. They will have angel parents who care for them and raise them up to be angels themselves.

If we humans cannot take care of our children, and we allow them to die, God and the angels will take them from our hands and raise them properly in the spiritual world.

Ghetto kids who die will also be cared for by angels who love them—though some of the older and more mixed up kids may need a bit of “tough love” before they straighten out and fly right. The job of angel parents and guardians is not necessarily an easy one. But it does carry the satisfaction of knowing that whatever circumstances a child or teen may have come from, he or she will in time find an eternal home in heaven.

I believe that teens go to heaven no matter what their experience has been, and no matter what they have done under the influence of that experience.

Teens are still children, even if they are “half adults.” They are precious beings, and I do not believe that God will allow any of them to go to hell if they die before reaching full adulthood and becoming fully responsible for their own choices and actions.

Is life fair?

The issue of eternal fairness is not really a thorny theological issue for me. The principles that Swedenborg lays down are so clear, so fair, and so loving that I have full faith that God is eternally loving and fair to all human beings.

I have more trouble with just how low God allows things to sink here on earth, and just how black and brutal the experience of many innocent people, including children and teens, is here on earth, than I do with the issue of eternal fairness.

Seeing how so many children grow up in starvation and malnutrition, or enduring physical and sexual abuse, or simply growing up in a toxic atmosphere of shaming and blaming and general lack of love, breaks my heart.

We humans, not God, are the ones who create all these evils. And we humans must clean up the mess we have created—God will not enter as a deus ex machina and do it for us.

But it is still terrible for so many millions of innocent children and teens, not to mention adults. In many ways, the children and teens who die are the lucky ones. They are going to a better place, where they will be loved and cared for and brought up in an atmosphere of light and warmth.

Here is a more challenging principle that Swedenborg offers:

If God sees that a particular person has no hope of finding his or her way to heaven, or that there is no hope that a particular person will reform, but instead will only get worse, and go to a deeper hell, God will allow (not cause) that person’s life here on earth to end early rather than allow them to continue living when the only possible outcome is that the person will end in hell, or in a worse hell than she or he is already in.

This, too, is part of God’s mercy in limiting the amount of damnation and pain we humans can inflict upon ourselves.

Unfortunately, many of us who perfectly well could choose to go to heaven choose not to do so. And God will not take away that choice, even if God sees that we will misuse it and choose hell. Rather, God will not allow us to be in a situation where the evil forces upon us are so overwhelming that our freedom is taken away, and hell is our only choice.

A more useful and practical corollary to this principle is:

If we’re still alive, we can still go to heaven

Every single person still living on this earth has a possibility of going to heaven, and that possibility exists right up to the moment of death. (Although genuine deathbed repentance is extremely rare, it is still a possibility.)

I believe this should inform our treatment of every single person on this earth, hardened criminals included. Every person still alive on this earth is a person whom God sees as a possible angel. And I believe our approach to every person, including those caught in the tangles of our penal system, should take this into account.

Certainly we need to punish criminals’ misdeeds and protect the general population from them. We cannot be lenient with people who have demonstrated their willingness to harm others.

At the same time, I believe they should be treated with all the respect and humaneness that they deny to others, to the limit of what can be done while still controlling their destructive behavior. And I believe they should always be treated as people who could reform themselves if they chose to do so.

Moving away from hardened criminals, I believe that children, teens, and adults should similarly be penalized for misdeeds, but should always be treated as people who can make a free choice to live in a better way. This should be done with respect, not with a shaming “You know better than that!”

My approach is generally to convey this message: “It’s your choice. If you choose to engage in that kind of behavior, you’re going to reap the consequences. But you are perfectly capable of making different choices, and things will go better if you do. Your fate is in your own hands.”

Now to get to the main part of your question.

Here are two more basic principles:

  1. We go to heaven or hell based only on our freely made choices.
  2. We are not held responsible, nor are we given credit, for any of the circumstances of our environment or upbringing. Bad influences will not cause us to go to hell, nor will good influences gain us access to heaven.

Since the second statement is perhaps the most surprising, let’s look at it first.

Good breeding will not get us into heaven

Swedenborg identifies the good character that comes from growing up with a good upbringing in a good environment as “natural good.” And he says that nobody gets into heaven because of natural good.

The good manners and good habits that come from a good upbringing are not our choice. They are just something that was molded into us by our upbringing. So they are not spiritual virtues, but natural ones.

In fact, we can use these natural virtues as a way to press forward our own agenda more effectively. People with good breeding, politeness, and a natural ability to treat people kindly and graciously tend to get along better and go farther in this world. They can use that to amass a fortune or gain power for themselves just as much as they can use it to accomplish good for the neighbor.

So our naturally acquired good character does not gain us access to heaven. Only what we consciously decide to do with it does. If we use a naturally good character only to gain money and power for ourselves, in the end we will find ourselves firmly ensconced in hell, stripped of the veneer of good breeding that we had acquired and cultivated in the world.

Bad influences will not send us to hell

By the same token, no evil and destructive influence from our childhood or our environment condemns us to hell. We are not responsible for the circumstances of our birth and upbringing (reincarnationist theory to the contrary notwithstanding). And God does not hold us responsible for things that we are not responsible for. Simple enough?

What we are responsible for in either case is the choices we make within the circumstances of our upbringing and our life. And those choices will be judged, not by some absolute standard, but in relation to the values—sound or not so sound—that we ourselves have adopted as “good and true” based on what we were brought up with and what we were taught.

Let’s take a look at your gangbanger, but let’s say he survived to 25 instead of getting shot at 17.

Living by our conscience is the key

What are his values? What does he consider good? Let’s set aside obvious values of money, power, sex, and so on that people in all walks of life go for. Even in gangs there are codes of conduct. Generally it is the same sort of code that obtains in organized crime families.

A key part of that code is loyalty to your “family,” whoever that may be. People outside the family are expendable. They don’t count. If you kill them, that’s not bad; it’s just what you do if necessary. But you are honor-bound to back up, protect, and not cheat on the members of your own gang.

Now, that’s a moral code. It may not be a terribly good one, and it may be very narrowly applied, but it does distinguish between good behavior and bad behavior toward at least some fellow human beings.

If that gangbanger dies at 25, he is not going to be judged by the standards that someone brought up in a comfortable middle-class environment is judged by. Rather, he is going to be judged by whether he lived honorably according to the only code of ethics that he knew—which was the gang code.

Did he back up his fellow gang members? Was he willing to take a bullet for any of them? Did he split the loot with them, and not cheat them when he had the opportunity to do so?

In short, did he put someone else’s—anyone else’s—wellbeing before his own? Or did he do everything purely out of his own desire for money, power, and sex, not caring who he hurt in the process, even if it meant turning on his own gang?

Assuming he was honorable according to his own code, he will end out in heaven, not in hell.

A conscience for heaven

However, he obviously can’t live by a gang code in heaven. He’s going to have quite a lengthy stay in the third stage after death, and those angel instructors are going to have their work cut out for them! Our third stage after death, as described by Swedenborg in Heaven and Hell, is a stage in which angels teach us what we need to know in order to live in heaven. For more on this, see the article, “What Happens To Us When We Die?

But the basic reason he will be in heaven and not in hell is that he was willing to subject himself to a law that he saw as greater than himself, rather than placing himself above everyone and everything else. And if he is willing to place some sort of law above himself, and live according to it because that is the right thing to do, he will eventually come to accept a better law than the one he was given in the particular environment he grew up in.

Essentially, he will go to heaven because he lived according to his conscience (see Romans 2:12-16). Anyone who does this is accepted into heaven after having his or her conscience re-formed according to the genuine spiritual truth of heaven.

Those who are willing to follow the law of their conscience will also be willing to follow a higher law when they see that there is a better law than the one they grew up with—and that this better law comes from God.

For a related article, see “Lee Boyd Malvo: Human Justice vs. Divine Justice.”

About

Lee Woofenden is an ordained minister, writer, editor, translator, and teacher. He enjoys taking spiritual insights from the Bible and the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg and putting them into plain English as guides for everyday life.

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Posted in Current Events, Pain and Suffering, The Afterlife
9 comments on “Can Gang Members Go to Heaven? (Is Life Fair?)
  1. Rob says:

    Who doesn’t violate their own conscience throughout their lives? Swedenborg said “its not so hard to go to heaven”, yet when I read him more I feel uttterly condemned. I just don’t get this enthusiasm over Swedenborg’s teachings. They’ve made me even more depressed. Who can live up to this??

    • Lee says:

      Hi Rob,

      Thanks for your comment. I am sorry you are struggling so greatly. It is, unfortunately, part of the human condition. However, it is often after our greatest struggles that we also find our greatest peace, by the grace and power of God.

      I am wondering: Which of Swedenborg’s books you have read? And what, exactly, is it that you feel you must live up to, but cannot?

  2. Rose says:

    I’ll be referring to your section titled “Living by our conscious is the key.” I’m a little confused about this gangbanger. I keep rereading this to make sure I’m reading it correctly. Are you saying that if the adult gangbanger follows his gangs code of conduct, he will go to heaven? If he puts his family above himself and does good by them and protects them, then he’s going to go to heaven? What if he kills a police officer to protect his homie from going to prison? What if his homie tries to rob an old lady, but the old lady has a gun and intends to shoot his homie to protect herself, so the gangbanger shoots the old lady to save his homie from her? He’s protecting his family. He’s putting someone else above himself. He’s following his code of conduct. He’s only killing someone outside his family; someone expendable. Are you saying you believe he’s going to heaven because he’s following his code of conduct?

    • Lee says:

      Hi Rose,

      Thanks for stopping by. Your question is a good one. It certainly does seem, to anyone with a reasonable, non-criminal code of conduct, that killing a police officer or killing an old lady is an obvious wrong, and that people who do such things should not be allowed into heaven, no matter what their thinking was.

      However, let me ask you a question:

      Can the people who planned, ordered, and carried out the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945 go to heaven?

      Yes, those bombings were carried out during a long and terrible war. And yet, they killed well over 100,000 people, and perhaps over 250,000 people, many of whom were innocent civilians, including non-combatant women, children, and elderly people. The debate over whether those bombings were justified continues to this day.

      In fact, as I write this, President Obama is about to visit Hiroshima; but he will not be offering an apology to the Japanese people for the U.S.’s use of atomic bombs against Japan. That’s because the prevailing view in the United States is that the bombings were justified because they saved millions of lives on both sides by ending the war before it became necessary for the Allies to invade the Japanese homeland.

      And yet, many more innocent people were killed by those two atomic bombs than by a gangbanger who shoots a cop or an old lady in order to protect his homies. And not only in Japan, but in many countries around the world that were not among the Allies who carried out the attacks, the use of nuclear weapons against Japan by the U.S. is seen as falling outside the boundaries of morality and ethics even in a wartime situation.

      However . . . the people who planned, ordered, and carried out the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were following their code of conduct, and acting according to their conscience.

      So can they go to heaven despite the fact that they killed well over 100,000 people, many of whom were innocent civilians, including many old ladies who had no guns to protect themselves with?

      Keep in mind that gang members often consider themselves to be fighting a war, and they commonly live in neighborhoods that are virtual war zones.

      So you decide.

      If a gangbanger is acting according to his conscience, no matter how faulty you or I believe his conscience is, can he go to heaven despite committing acts that most people consider to be flagrantly outside the boundaries of morality and ethics?

  3. Frankly Frank says:

    Hi Lee,

    IMO living under one’s present consciousness even if it’s by an established code of organizational conduct doesn’t mean that person has a shot so to speak of getting into heaven. What it does mean though is that going to heaven is conditional depending if that person consciously knew what they were doing was wrong, i.e., murder, rape, etc.

    IOW following orders and deliberately ignoring that little voice that tells you it’s wrong is the real litmus test here regardless if one came from an unprivileged environment or not. I posit that if someone overcame their crappy life’s lot on earth and did what their conscience said was right that person will likewise be rewarded much more greatly in heaven than those that did little with what they were given on earth while being privileged.

    We’re all initially dealt from a random chance deck of life cards IMO. What we do with that hand we’re dealt with whether rich or poor determines IMO our ultimate destiny. That same gangbanger if instead had been born rich and privileged very well could’ve had the same lack of conscience and still would’ve been essentially a murderer, rapist, etc.

    The 2 criminals on crosses on either side of Christ IMO supports my above stance. One was unrepentant till death the other one was repentant. That conversion was as you say though was extremely rare. The point being beyond that rare instance is that if one ignores their good from wrong conscience regardless of their environment or code of conduct, that person IMO automatically doesn’t get a get out of jail card. I think such a concept is the wrong message to send. I’m not saying you’re specifically saying that mind you it’s just that it kinda sounds that way depending on the perspective. The criminal on Christ’s right basically acknowledges that he should’ve listened to his conscience and repents for not doing so. The other criminal appears destined for hell because he doesn’t acknowledge that his conscience told him it was wrong.

    Ultimately since only God knows our hearts whether we’re rich or poor that is what will determine our final fate. Consequently I don’t think people like that gangbanger that murders just because their code of conduct overrides their conscience telling them murder is wrong should get “extra” angel counseling and extended rehabilitation credits over those who weren’t murdering.

    IOW it still all boils back down to if that individual is truly repentant for the deeds they did regardless of environmental, upbringing, or financial stature mitigating factors; and most importantly what they still think about what their conscience telling them it was wrong back then or now. If they still don’t care what their conscience said or says up against that code of gangbanger conduct then I surmise hell here I still come! Otherwise bad behavior gets essentially rewarded! What kind of message is that?

    Bottomline I think you’re not putting enough emphasis on the role everyone’s knowing right from wrong innate conscience plays here regardless of all those other mitigating factors!

    Frankly Frank 🙂

    • Lee says:

      Hi Frankly Frank,

      I appreciate what you’re saying and I agree with much of it.

      However, I don’t think there’s any such thing as “innate conscience.” Perhaps there are some inborn tendencies toward what you or I might think of as a truly good code of conduct. But that can be and often is overridden by what people are taught is right and wrong from the time of their birth, and especially by the example of their parents, teachers, and other adults in the society.

      This is not a matter of gangbangers “overriding their conscience telling them murder is wrong.” Rather, it’s a matter of gangbangers’ consciences not actually telling them that killing is wrong when they do it to defend their fellow gang members. When soldiers go out and fight for their country, do they believe that it is wrong to kill enemy soldiers?

  4. Frankly Frank says:

    Hi Lee,

    What I was referring to is not in those instances where someone kills another avowed gang member to “defend their turf” because that’s what they’re expected to do. What I’m referring to is killing someone because they owe money, killing a shop owner because he refuses to pay protection money, raping another gang’s girl to prove they belong in the gang by initiation, etc. I’m talking about someone that KNOWS it’s wrong by their conscience but does it anyway because they want more than anything else to be accepted as a gang banger in their gang. They know the difference between right and wrong!

    If what you’re telling me is that the only way we learn from right and wrong is by being taught it I have to disagree. I believe we all are born with an innate conscience. I also believe we become more evil as time goes by when we deliberately ignore that conscience.

    No one that I can remember ever “taught” me that slamming a knife into my playmate’s gut, or taking a bat and swinging it to the face at age 4 was wrong when we got into a disagreement on whose toy belonged to who. I just knew that it was innately wrong so I didn’t do it. Just like the innate instinct we all are born with to fight or flight when direly threatened. It’s wired into us.

    So a 17 year old that doesn’t “know” popping a cap into his grandma or someone else’s innocent grandma is wrong is a real stretch to me. Hell, 4 year olds know this. Sorry I don’t care how rough their upbringing was or how poor they were. They just don’t GAS.

    You hear of random shootings, revenge shootings on innocent people, all the time. Not to mention the horrific wailing by mothers when their innocent son is shot dead for no other reason that he lives across the street. C’mon. There’s no real comparison here to soldiers fighting wars for their countries and gangbangers killing, raping, and pillaging, for individual profit or higher gang status. This isn’t self defense at work here. This is pure

    Am I supposed to coddle some S.O.B. heartless initiation rites gangbanger that rapes my 12 year old niece too? Where is the line drawn here, Lee? If they don’t have a conscience at all here on earth how is an angel going to make that gangbanger all of a sudden develop one? Force them to?

    The ultimate point I’m trying to make here is that those same gangbangers don’t kill their fellow homie grandmothers in revenge because they don’t like the way they looked at them some morning because their conscience tells them it’s wrong. They know about the suffering at funerals, they know about familial loss, they know because they too have a conscience. They just ignore the same exact conscience voice because they can justify it by some BS gain when it’s some other gang’s grandmother.

    It’s like those that go to church on Sunday and confess their sins then on Monday they go shoot some kid behind the ear “for the gang”.

    Frankly Frank 🙂

    • Lee says:

      Hi Frankly Frank,

      I don’t think you’re giving your parents enough credit. By the time you’re four, they’ve already inculcated many things into you, most of which you probably don’t remember because memory barely goes back that far. By that time they’ve already stopped you from swiping your siblings’ or playmates toys, stopped you from hitting them, and so on. They’ve already begun molding your mind and your conscience about what’s right and wrong. Just because you don’t remember this happening, that doesn’t mean your conscience is inborn. Psychologists tell us that our first five years are critical to laying the foundations for the rest of our life.

      About the gangbangers, most of them probably are headed for hell for the reasons you give: they’re aware that what they’re doing is wrong, and they don’t care because they’re making money. But we can’t definitively judge their spiritual state from the outside because we didn’t have their particular experience growing up, and we’re not in their shoes. We don’t know what their experiences were and what they believe is right and wrong. People growing up in warped circumstances can get a very warped sense of right and wrong.

      Of course, as far as civil law goes (as opposed to spiritual law, not as opposed to criminal law), when they commit a crime, it doesn’t matter whether they think it’s right or wrong. They still have to be arrested and punished, both to protect society and to help modify their conscience, if that’s possible and they’re not already hardened into a life of crime. And if they’re just kids, not adults, they’re held to a different standard both by human law and by divine law. For more on these issues, see: Lee Boyd Malvo: Human Justice vs. Divine Justice?

      Further, they can’t continue to pop off grandmas and rape rivals’ girlfriends in the afterlife. If they die as adults who are hardened into that life and don’t even care what’s right and wrong, they’ll end out in hell, where they will not be allowed to prey on innocent people. But if they just got royally screwed in the upbringing department, and had no decent conscience inculcated into them but at least lived according to the code of conduct that they were taught, as screwed up as it was, they’ll have a chance to leave behind their life of crime after they die. And if they do, they’ll end out in heaven, not in hell. Probably a rather low heaven because their spiritual life was never developed, but heaven nevertheless.

  5. Frankly Frank says:

    Lee,

    Well ok I understand better where you’re focusing and why.

    Frankly Frank 🙂

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