Creationist Fourth Grade Science Quiz Page 1
Creationist Fourth Grade Science Quiz Page 2
This just viral: a fourth grade science quiz.
Normally, grade school science quizzes are not that interesting. But when the correct answer to the true/false question “The earth is billions of years old” is “false,” that gets people’s attention.
As it turns out, the quiz in question was given at the Blue Ridge Christian Academy in the town of Landrum, S. Carolina, north of Greenville. The children had been shown the DVD presentation “Dinosaurs, Genesis, & the Gospel” by Ken Ham and Buddy Davis, published by an organization called Answers in Genesis. The DVD expounds a “young Earth creationism” view of the Bible, which holds that the Creation story in Genesis is to be taken literally, and that the earth is six to ten thousand years old. The quiz tested the children’s knowledge of what was taught in the video.
The moment a photo of the completed quiz hit the Internet on the r/atheist forum at reddit.com, the heated rhetoric began.
Creation vs. Evolution: heated rhetoric
Heated rhetoric between Creationists and Evolutionists is nothing new.
For example, back in February, Lawrence Krauss, a physicist and outspoken atheist, went on the David Pakman show to discuss his charge that teaching Creationism is a form of child abuse. Far from softening his earlier statement, during the interview he said that teaching Creationism “is like the Taliban at some level, which is an extreme form of child abuse.” His statement comes about four and a half minutes into this video:
The fundamentalist Christian publishers of the DVD on which the 4th grade science quiz was based is accusing atheists of “viciously attacking” the school that administered the quiz. “Over the past few years,” they say, “we have seen atheists becoming more aggressive and intolerant towards Christians.” They go on to say:
These secularists want to impose their anti-God religion on the culture. They are simply not content using legislatures and courts to protect the dogmatic teaching of their atheistic religion of evolution and millions of years in public schools.
Really, guys?
The Taliban?
Dogmatic teaching of atheistic religion?
Can we all just calm down, please?
Beliefs are important, but they’re not that important
Just for the record, I happen to believe that very literal interpretations of the Bible are mistaken.
But should we really be hurling insults at one another over our differing beliefs?
Even if we sincerely believe that someone else’s beliefs are utterly wrong, does that justify condemning them and subjecting them to invective and attack?
As important as beliefs are in directing our life, it is our actions that count the most. That’s what Jesus was talking about when he said:
You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? In the same way, every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. (Matthew 7:16–17)
Whether or not we happen to agree with others’ beliefs, the important thing is how they live. Do they care about others and serve their fellow human beings in constructive ways? If so, then no matter what kind of funny beliefs may be banging around in their heads, their actions show that they believe in love, compassion, and service. And according to Jesus, our actions—not our mere beliefs—will determine our ultimate place in heaven or hell (see Matthew 7:21-23; 25:31-46). That’s another way of saying that our actions display our true character as human beings.
People with wrong ideas can be good citizens and good neighbors
Lawrence Krauss and his fellow scientists are worried that if so many Americans are being taught so much bad science, our country is bound to fall behind in scientific and social advancement. Biology and physics, they say, are crucial to the technological innovation that keeps us at the forefront of human development.
However, not everyone has to be at the forefront of biology and physics for society to function and to advance. In addition to the scientific elites who push forward the boundaries of knowledge and technological capability, society needs many other types of people in order to function well. Where will all those scientists pulling all-nighters in the lab get their coffee and donuts if there aren’t people to run Starbucks and Dunkin’ Donuts? How will they invest their earnings if there aren’t money managers and investment bankers to manage their IRAs?
Even if, as some polls say, 1/5 of Americans still think the sun orbits the earth, how many people’s jobs actually depend on knowing that in fact, the earth orbits the sun? People can have many false and faulty ideas, and still serve necessary and useful functions in society.
To put it simply, people can have false beliefs and still be good citizens and good neighbors.
Love your neighbor, the beliefs will follow
The fundamental question of human worth is not whether people’s heads are on straight, but whether their hearts are in the right place.
Even people with enlightened scientific or religious beliefs can be intolerant, prejudiced, and downright nasty to those who disagree with them or get in their way.
And even people with crazy and laughable religious or scientific beliefs can be loving, kind, thoughtful, and useful to their fellow human beings.
For those whose hearts are small and intolerant, even the best beliefs in the world will not save them.
But for those with big hearts and concern for their fellow human beings, harsh beliefs will eventually soften and move in a more thoughtful and humane direction. Consider this: even controversial televangelist Pat Robertson has come out against the idea that the earth is 6,000 years old:
As for children who are brought up in fundamentalist Christian homes and communities, once they reach adulthood they will be able to evaluate their upbringing for themselves, and move on to less literalistic religious beliefs and more accurate scientific beliefs if they so choose.
There are many atheists who grew up in conservative Christian households. And many Christians who were conservative and fundamentalist in their younger years adopt broader and more thoughtful forms of Christianity as they move into their middle and older years.
Yes, lots of kids are being taught some rather unscientific and outlandish stuff. But it’s not the end of the world. If they’re at least taught to love their neighbor, they have the foundation for a good life. And if as adults their hearts are in the right place, and they are engaged in work that serves society, their heads will eventually follow.
Even if they do hold onto their false beliefs to their graves, their life of love toward the neighbor and service to the community will far outweigh the faulty ideas under which their minds labored.
Perhaps eventually our society will reach an enlightened consensus about the beginning of the world. Meanwhile, if we cling tenaciously to conflicting beliefs, it’s really not the end of the world!
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Lee Woofenden is an ordained minister, writer, editor, translator, and teacher. He enjoys taking spiritual insights from the Bible and the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg and putting them into plain English as guides for everyday life.
Spiritual Insights for Everyday Life 
Lee, you make good solid sense here. I personally think the Bible is a very valuable document and I agree that it is, at its very deepest level, inspired by God. But this inspiration must necessarily come through human beings and, it seems to me at least, always carries the distortions and beliefs that the particular humans who wrote down their inspirations assumed to be true. So there are absolutely spectacular writings in it and there are quite bland parts. What really counts is how the words we read move our hearts.
To me, a literal interpretation of the words of the Bible is a very sterile intellectual approach to its contents that can get us quite distant from its heart-warming potential. I agree with you that there is no real need for all the heat and vindictiveness in the evolution-creation debates. But I do not think it is likely that those with a strongly literal approach to the Bible are going to change their position. I think scientists, though, can be reached with a strong argument. We should encourage them to just ignore the actions of the creationists. You are absolutely correct, the kids in these schools will eventually see through the errors.
Your article is good common sense approach to the problem. It gets my thumbs up!
Chuck
Hi Chuck,
Thanks for stopping by, and for your thoughtful comments. It looks like you’re elected to reach the scientists with that strong argument! 🙂
About the Bible, I agree that it has both a divine and a human component. Unfortunately, there is much confusion about how the Bible can be God’s Word if it is filtered through the particular cultures and mores of its human authors. But the fact that it has a human component, far from vitiating it as a divine document, makes it all the more powerful once the true nature of the Bible is well understood. This is a subject that I plan to write a future article about.
Meanwhile, my post “Can We Really Believe the Bible?” does cover some related subjects.
Really nice post. A healthy and calming perspective.
Hi Bill,
Thanks for stopping by! Glad you enjoyed the post.
Responding to the question about the comment line: What do you think? I think you are quite right. Thanks. ib
But I am surprised that you are moderating comments. LOL. ib
Hi Irm,
Thanks for visiting! I moderate only first-time commenters. There have been a few comments that I really did not want to subject my readers to, if you get my drift. From now on, you’re free to visit and share your thoughts here as much as you like. Meanwhile, I’m glad you enjoyed the article!
When I learned that this test was given at a private school, I ignored all the discussion about it. People should be free to teach their children the any outlandish thing they want. But I think that ignores a larger point. There are a lot of my fellow Christians who are portraying themselves as a persecuted minority in order to quell any opposition to their political agenda. (When in fact Christians are the most powerful group on earth. If you doubt it, just count the number of nuclear bombs under the command of a Christian compared to all other religions combined.) They are successfully using their power to get their religious beliefs (young earth creationism) taught in public schools under the guise of calling it “science”. Just because you believe it is true does not make it science. By and large, politicians are afraid to oppose them. They don’t even have the theory correct. They talk about the “Theory of Evolution”. There is no such theory. The scientists who have studied the matter regard evolution as an observable *fact*. The name of the theory is “evolution (fact) by natural selection (explanatory theory)”. Just by failing to make this distinction they are not teaching science. When a group protected only by a principle (separation of Church and State) are opposed by a politically powerful group, it is not surprising they become shrill in defense of their position.
Hi Doug,
Thanks for stopping by, and for your thoughts. If I were to delve into political views, we’d have a whole different conversation. Suffice it to say that I’m a strong supporter of separation of church and state. I am very concerned about inroads being made in both directions to link churches more closely to federal, state, and local government.
However, since this is a spiritual blog, I’m more concerned here about the spiritual implications of the debate about creation vs. evolution. That includes the psychological effects on the children. I do believe that children are resilient. Despite a questionable education in their school years, they are able to recover from it as adults if they so choose, and move on to more thoughtful and rational positions than they were taught as youngsters. Yes, there is a loss when children are poorly educated. But there is an even greater loss–a loss of freedom for both adults and children–if the state presumes to impose particular methods and content on the education of all children.
Though I don’t support teaching creationism in public schools, I also don’t think it is anywhere near as damaging as some believe it is. If nothing else, it will make the children aware that there is a serious controversy in our society over how the universe was created, so that eventually they can make up their own minds. I believe that over time, young earth Creationism will decline in popularity.
I also think you missed the scientists concerns (many of whom are not athiests, by the way, and do not need to be convinced of the value of the Bible). It is not that children aren’t being taught *facts*, it is that they are not being taught how to *reason*. Whether you are a rocket scientist or a barista, lack of ability to reason is dangerous to democracy.
Yes, good point: there are many scientists who believe in God, and many scientists who are Christians and revere the Bible as God’s Word–albeit not usually in the literalistic way that fundamentalist and evangelical Christians do. However, they are not usually the ones who are most shrill on the scientific side of the debate between scientists and fundamentalists over evolution vs. creation.
The thing is, these “conflicts” between science and religion are all quite easily resolvable with a more rational and spiritual view of religion and a more open-minded view of science.
However, don’t get me started on the sort of job the schools are doing in teaching children how to reason–or even to function effectively in the working world. The fundamentalist schools do not have a corner on the market of turning out students who, at the end of their years of primary and secondary schooling, still are not equipped with some of the most basic knowledge and thinking ability needed to be solid, contributing members of society.
I believe that crossing a busy road is safe if I close my eyes as God will protect me.
I know that crossing a busy road is not safe if I close my eyes
One is fact one is faith or belief. I know which one I trust to be taught to children.
Your description of teaching children to read is essential; however this must be based on fact. The air is compromised of various gasses it is not belief it is fact. It is belief that a book mus-translated through various languages over several thousand years (old and new testament) gives an accurate view of the world’s development. Scientists to believe. They propose hypothesise that may prove to be correct or not. In modern science these are tested by other scientists. This leads to probability of fact not absolute certainty but highly likely.
It is highly likely that you will be killed or seriously injured in my first example, not fact.
So to use the same reasoning on the creationist view of the world ends with a highly unlikely based on analysis despite the faith of those who believe it. It is highly unlikely that a book (which is contradicted in other contemporaneous records) is a factual account of what happened, just as Galileo’s view of the solar system was incorrect.
Five hundred or more years ago all Christian religious leaders thought the world was flat because the bible told them so, or so they said, it isn’t.
Hi phenweb,
Thanks for stopping by, and for your comment.
Just to be clear, I agree with you that creationism as taught by many fundamentalist Christians is incorrect and false.
To use your example, the belief that “crossing a busy road is safe if I close my eyes as God will protect me” is a false belief. God will not, in fact, protect you if you close your eyes and cross a busy street.
Similarly, the idea that our solar system was created in six days is a false belief.
The creation story in the Bible was written in a mythic, pre-scientific age of humankind. Its purpose was never to teach, scientifically or otherwise, how the world was created. Rather, its purpose was express certain truths about the human experience in mythical, or symbolic, terms. For more on this, see my article “Can We Really Believe the Bible?”
The point of the above article about the debate between Creationists and Evolutionists is not to say that each should get a fair hearing and all sides should be considered. Rather, it is to say that engaging in invective and attack upon one another is not a reasonable or constructive way to proceed.
Many people hold false beliefs. In an ideal world, that would not be the case. But we don’t live in an ideal world. We live in the world that actually exists, in which large swaths of humankind believe many things that simply aren’t true.
But that is not the biggest problem we humans face.
Even people with false beliefs can be good citizens if their hearts are in the right place, and they devote their lives to serving their fellow human beings in some useful and constructive way.
The main point of the article is to say that as important as our beliefs are, how we treat one another is more important.
If our beliefs are correct, but we engage in invective and attack against those who adhere to beliefs we consider false, are we really improving the human situation here on earth?
Thanks for the eloquent reply and the comment on my own blog. My concern is that by not forcefully challenging many of these beliefs many children end up being falsely educated this could disadvantage them for life. Of course the educators want that to happen they want to perpetuate the myths and life order they have created. Priests remain unchallenged even when child abuse is known as has happened in the Catholic Church. The tone of any argument should be reasonable but many in this discussion have no reason. They have faith and insist that their faith is the right one everyone else is a heretic and should be burned at the stake.
In Nigeria literally, in Pakistan stoned and in the USA via the media unless you are working in an abortion clinic when you are fair game. So false and overpowering is the belief that Presidential Candidates claim to be religious just so as not to avoid losing votes. A nation that was partly founded on escaping religious persecution now persecutes non-believers.
The UK is not so bad but it contains the signs.
Hi phenweb,
I share many of your concerns. There are no easy answers. However, I believe that as humanity progresses, these old and reactionary religious views will gradually wane on the world stage in favor of more enlightened views.
I agree that it is necessary to confront and combat old and mistaken beliefs. But this should be done with respect for the human beings involved, not with invective and vitriol. Approaching it emotionally, with anger and hatred toward one’s intellectual adversaries, only throws gasoline (petrol, for you) on the fire, and inflames things further.
I regularly combat old, mistaken religious views here on Spiritual Insights for Everyday Life. However, I attempt to “stick to the facts”–meaning focus on the ideas themselves–and not engage in the invective, insult, and personal attack that mars so much of the debate between modern science and outdated religion.
I’ve already directed you to an article here that challenges traditional and fundamentalist Christian views on the Bible in general and the Creation story in particular. Here is another article that you might find interesting, about the supposed “end of the world” predicted in the book of Revelation and elsewhere in the Bible:
Is the World Coming to an End? What about the Second Coming?
[…] have just commented on a blog, in which the author complains about the arguments between atheists and creationists getting out of […]
This ongoing confrontation between groups staunchly holding to their own convictions, to the point of being abusive towards others, really is an issue.
Fundamentally, it is no different than the age-old debate between the pessimist who sees the glass as half empty, and the optimist who sees the glass as half full. Both are right in the context of what each believes to be true (which, in this case, can be proven true from either point of view), and there is no reason to persecute the other for thinking differently, especially when, in reality, both are right.
Why not agree to compromise, and simply state that we all ‘evolved’ from ‘creation’? That still leaves a plethora of unsubstantiated truths on both sides of the table for each respective party to work diligently toward realizing and understanding, each in their own ways, without compromising their different principles or positions.
For the record, as an engineer, I always view the glass as being twice as big as it needs to be. 🙂
Good one!
As a spiritual teacher, I view the glass as having the potential to be filled to overflowing. 😀
Hi Lee,
I have sometime been intrigued by Jesus’s comment that “You will identify false teachers by their FRUITS.” Fruits, not beliefs. Of course, Paul seemed to be much more concerned with what was actually being taught, but Jesus’s comment does seem to confirm your idea that actions are more important.
David
Hi David,
Yes, Paul heavily emphasized faith. But take a look at Romans 2:1-16. There Paul, too, makes it clear that when our time of individual judgment comes, each of us, regardless of our faith or religion, will be judged by what we have done.
And of course, there’s the granddaddy of them all: The Sheep and the Goats in Matthew 25:31-46. It really doesn’t get much clearer that we will go to eternal punishment or eternal life based on what we have done.
I know you called for calm but really this is the sort of thing all reasonable people should be hopping mad about. For most practical purposes (aside from say a real science exam) the age of the earth or Universe is totally irrelevent to me, as is evolutionary theory, or indeed whether the earth is flat or not. In a certain sense, I honestly couldn’t care less if other people ‘believed’ in the big bang or not.
The reason why we should get angry is that we have people deliberately spreading what they know full well to be lies, ignorance and idiocy. Lies and idiocy that happen to make a nice profit for some. It’s when this same ignorance of reality is applied to such matters as say human-caused global warming that we see the danger in it. Believing in something not just without evidence, but in the face of mountains of contradictory evidence, is a huge problem, especially when the ignorance finds its way into the heads of policy makers.
The other issue is how easy is it really for young minds to purge themselves of this nonsense, once it takes a hold. As an example of how insidious these things are, and I’m not just saying this to be snarky, but Lee, when you say, “If nothing else, it will make the children aware that there is a serious controversy in our society over how the universe was created”, it seems like you’re conflating the theory of evolution with cosmology, exactly as the fundies do!
Hi Matt,
People can get upset about these things if they want. But when they start personally attacking and vilifying those who are on the opposite side of the question, that’s where I take exception. In my experience, most creationists sincerely believe what they’re teaching, and do not have bad motives. In my opinion, they’re simply stuck in a very rigid and materialistic view of religion and the Bible. Yes, some of them are hypocrites who are making money and a following from these teachings. But most are just ordinary people stuck in a very shallow form of religion.
As for evolution and cosmology, in the minds of most creationists, the two are very closely connected. And even in secular science, evolution is part of the scientific theory that dovetails with the general cosmological perspective saying that the earth, and the universe, are billions, not thousands, of years old.
I recently had a conversation with a creationist gentleman, and I realized that more than anything, it’s genuinely sad that so many people have learned beliefs that limit their understanding of both the wonderfully complex nature of the universe and of the rich truths the Bible has to offer on a spiritual level.
Hi Griffin,
Yes, it’s unfortunate. There is so much more to the Bible, to Christianity, and to life in general than fundamentalists and literalists see. They’re missing out on a whole world of spiritual life. But that’s as far as some people’s minds travel.
Hi Lee,
I have a question on “intelligent design”,
My question is regarding these articles I read on the answers in genesis website, one from Fox News and another on a Joe Rogan podcast (there’s a YouTube and FB clips as well). But it is regarding these people who believes these remains like the ones named Starchild, Ata in Chile and elongated and unidentified DNA of skulls found in Peru to even Octopus, to the universe which they said it’s created in a lab and we live in a computer hologram / simulation which is running on an advanced civilization’s supercomputer to UFOs are time machines checking up on their past evolution / design to say how our History that we know is fake / coverup.)(I linked all the articles below) are “genetically engineered” by “aliens”. Like the idea of “Panspermia”.
Why do people viciously defend and spread these types of ridiculous ideas? All they do is spread fear and paranoia. Like specifically this quote here(this quote is from the star-child article):
“ Pye recently authored an ebook, Intervention Theory Essentials, outlining his beliefs about the origin of humanity. He denies biblical creation and evolution with equal vigor. In his ebook he states, “Interventionists like me anchor our search for origins on evidence rather than faith, on logic rather than magic.
We don’t think that God did it, or that life spontaneously generated.” Instead, Pye takes an “intelligent design” position, but his
“intelligent designers” are aliens. Pye writes that these intelligent aliens are “non-human, non-Earth-based. human-like entities (aliens or gods, with a small ‘g’).” He believes these aliens genetically engineered primitive bipedal ape-like hairy hominoids, hybridizing their “primitive hominoid” genes with their own superior alien genes to create test-tube people. He hopes his findings in the Starchild investigation will lend credence to his position.”
Even A recent article claims that Dr. Rich Terrile, the director of the Center for Evolutionary Computation and Automated Design at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory, believes “that our reality is an elaborate hologram created by an alien race.” Dr. Terrile reportedly said, “We can all be the creation of a cosmic computer programmer as opposed to a God.” https://answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2017/07/23/nasa-scientist-reality-elaborate-hologram-creation-alien-race/
What do you make of this? I linked another article below talking about how the former chair of the astronomy department at Harvard University wrote about our universe being created in a laboratory “that our universe was created in the laboratory of an advanced technological civilization” with the advanced technology to create “a baby universe out of nothing through quantum tunneling. He claims such an idea “unifies the religious notion of a creator with the secular notion of quantum gravity. And he was published in Scientific American.”?? https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/astronomer-our-universe-created-laboratory/
And my other questions based on these articles is, I heard this from other indigenous cultures, from the Native Hawaiian religion as well Central and South American religions talking about these “Star-Beings” coming down and “creating human hybrids ” (the quote is in the star child article). I know these cultures were into Animism but I also think about about what Swedenborg says about how thoughts move from community to community without people even realizing it. But I just wanted to get your perspective on this as well because the person who is promoting these absurd ideas is using this as “evidence” along with what they and others say in the articles?
This “intelligent design” they even apply it to the universe as “aliens created it in a laboratory” along with the octopus and “time machines” because they are checking up on their past evolution or design?( https://www.foxnews.com/science/ufos-are-time-machines-from-the-future-professor-claims )
Even not that long ago there was a podcast episode from Joe Rogan (I personally do not like him or his podcast I just remember it going viral) that this guy named Bob Lazar he says he was in the military and how he has proof of Aliens and has antigravity element 115. He says that he has this holographic projection “book” technology about the buried past and how the governments been lying about human history. He goes on to say how our History that we know is fake and how aliens are the true creators and designers. Like what?
(This Bob Lazar guy is apparently quite popular and has a bunch of other wild claims. If you google his name or type in Bob Lazar Roe Rogan podcast it all comes up )
What do you make of people whose claim this?
Also I know this is a lot but what is it your take on people who claim Alien Abductions? They as well talk about how human are hybrids of alien design? Here is a link talking about it: https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/alien-life/alien-abductions-freaky-fiction/
For the full articles are here
https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/alien-life/starchild-alien-human-hybrid/
https://answersingenesis.org/human-body/ancient-humans-of-paracas-are-victims-of-a-twisted-tale/
https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/alien-life/alien-thinking/
https://answersingenesis.org/kids/sea-animals/out-this-world-thinking/
https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/astronomer-our-universe-created-laboratory/
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XGVUUBgNF0s
(Again about how our universe was “booted up”)
https://www.facebook.com/falcon.acamesis/videos/10220006315562170/
Sorry for all these “UFO Intelligent Design” topics I guess with the popularization of it they found their way to my inbox or suggestions tab (even though I never signed up for answers in genesis website or topics on UFOs and they always get me with those fear based clickbait titles ) and just needed your guidance on the subject like would this have any bearing on whether there is or isn’t an afterlife since this is pertaining to the material reality and not spiritual reality? I have very limited knowledge about this stuff (apart from learning in school) because I am mostly focused on learning about spiritual reality.
Thank you so very kindly as always Lee for your time, help, and guidance on these subjects. I can’t thank you enough.
Hi Lee,
Sorry for the last post I think it got sent to spam because of all the links and large amounts of quotes I just wanted to source all the info that it came from. I am sorry about that. Here is the post without any. Thank you again.
I have a question on “intelligent design” coming from secular/materialistic people.
It is regarding these people who believes remains that where found like the ones named Starchild in Mexico, another one called Ata in Chile and another elongated skulls found in Peru all with “unidentified” DNA are “genetically engineered” test-tube people aka (us humans) by “intelligent designers” which are aliens. Like the idea of “Panspermia”.
These “scientists” even apply this “alien intelligent design” to Octopus, to the universe which they said it’s created in a lab says a Harvard professor that this “unifies the religious notion of a creator with the secular notion of quantum gravity.”.
To a NASA director who says we live in a computer hologram / simulation which is running on an advanced civilization’s supercomputer which “We can all be the creation of a cosmic computer programmer as opposed to a God.”
To UFOs are time machines checking up on their past evolution / design says a university professor. Because our History that we know is fake / coverup says this popular insider named Bob Lazar because he has this hologram book?
From other indigenous cultures, from the Native Hawaiian religion as well Central and South American religions talking about these “Star-Beings” coming down and “creating human hybrids”? I know these cultures were into Animism but I also think about about what Swedenborg says about how thoughts move from community to community without people even realizing it.
To even people who claim Alien Abductions? They as well talk about how humans are hybrids and our reality is of alien design?
Why do people come up with ideas like this and viciously defend and spread these types of ridiculous ideas? All they do is spread fear and paranoia. Like specifically this quote here:
“Interventionists like me anchor our search for origins on evidence rather than faith, on logic rather than magic. Pye takes an “alien intelligent design” position. He hopes his findings in the Starchild investigation will lend credence to his position.”
Sorry for all these “UFO Intelligent Design” topics I guess with the popularization of it they found their way to my inbox or suggestions tab (even though I never signed up for answers in genesis website or topics on UFOs and they always get me with those fear based clickbait titles ) and just needed your guidance on the subject like would this have any bearing on whether there is or isn’t an afterlife since this is pertaining to the material reality and not spiritual reality? I have very limited knowledge about this stuff (apart from learning in school) because I am mostly focused on learning about spiritual reality.
Thank you so very kindly as always Lee for your time, help, and guidance on these subjects. I can’t thank you enough.
Hi Sam,
Your last post didn’t go to spam. It was held for moderation because of the multiple links. I’ve been very busy the last few days, and haven’t had a chance to respond yet. But I will, soon.
Hi Sam,
The bottom line for me here in the material world is that although there are all sorts of wild claims and conspiracy theories, there just isn’t any actual scientific evidence for any of this. Even when there are photos and videos of supposed aliens, somehow real scientists are never allowed to study them. Why?
Honestly, I don’t believe any of these stories. If there were actual aliens, it would be all over the mainstream news, not hidden in some shadowy place on another continent or in some secret government laboratory where no one can actually get to them and study them.
I don’t have time now to read all the articles you linked and watch all the videos, though I did read some of them. I’ll just respond briefly about the various phenomena you mention.
But first, why do people defend these ideas? I think it’s either because they are making a buck or because they want their life to be special and meaningful, and aliens do that for them without their having to actually do any hard work themselves to accomplish something meaningful with their lives.
About the idea that we are living in a computer simulation:
I don’t believe it because I don’t think a computer can have or produce consciousness. Consciousness requires a soul, which is a spiritual entity. Computers are material entities. So I just don’t believe that any computer simulation could include beings that have consciousness. See:
Are We Headed for an AI Apocalypse?
About the idea of our being genetically engineered by aliens:
When there is any real evidence of aliens, maybe I’ll take this seriously. But there isn’t.
Meanwhile, evolution does a perfectly adequate job of explaining how we came to be biologically and genetically human. There is no need for aliens to explain our genetics. Occam’s razor therefore suggests that we are the product of evolution, not of alien visitations.
About various misshapen skulls that are claimed to be alien-human hybrids:
Most likely these are rare abnormalities or diseases that have affected a human being. But until they can be studied in labs and subjected to the rigors of full scientific analysis and debate, we won’t know for sure what these skulls and such are.
About UFOs being our future selves checking up on us:
So far the general scientific consensus is that it is possible to time travel to the future by traveling close to the speed of light, but it is not possible to time travel to the past. I think this is true. Otherwise, we would see the plot of many a sci-fi thriller playing out in real life, in which a bad actor comes from the future and raises holy hell in the present.
Not only does current theory hold that time travel to the past is impossible, but there is no real evidence of beings from the future visiting earth. Keep in mind that if time travel to the past is possible, it would be possible to travel to any time period. Surely someone would have gone back and killed Hitler while he was still a baby!
About Harvard professor Avi Loeb:
Loeb does have some wild ideas. But when you listen to actual interviews with him, he is generally careful to say that these are theories, and that we should not shy away from considering theories that are outside of the usual orbit of scientific inquiry.
However, when his theories get reported in the clickbait media, all that nuance is stripped out of it. He is reported to believe all sorts of outlandish things that are perfect clickbait fodder. Media outlets make more money from clickbait than they do from responsible, balanced reporting of what people actually say and believe.
About alien abductions:
I suspect that all of these are either fabrications to make a buck or they are hallucinations. They fit too neatly into people’s secret fears. Would aliens really abduct humans in order to mate with them and engage in humiliating invasive examinations of their sexual organs? Would that really be the most interesting thing about us for an alien race?
I recall seeing an “adult” cartoon once in which a well-endowed young lady is sitting naked and blushing on an exam table in the medical lab of some alien spaceship while all around her little green men a quarter her size are engaging in pitched battles over who will get to examine her. Haha! Funny!
But in real life, male animals are attracted to females of their own species. They have no sexual interest in the females of other species. That Pretty Young Thing sitting starkers on the alien exam table was drawn with exaggerated sexual features to be attractive to her intended human male audience. It is silly to think that she would be sexually attractive to males of an entirely different species.
Why do aliens who abduct humans so often engage in X-rated activities with them? It reeks of the Freudian fears of the people being abducted rather than being something that would make sense from an objective point of view. This is just one reason why I think the most likely explanation of these stories is that they are hallucinatory fantasies on the part of the people who report being abducted. It would be better for these people to hire a shrink to delve into their secret secret fears and fantasies with them.
About “star beings” coming down and mating with humans:
This is a common myth that exists in many cultures. Even the Bible has an account of this sort of thing in Genesis 6:1–8. (See verses 2 and 4.)
These stories represent an archetypal theme in human culture of powerful beings coming, stealing our women, and mating with them. As with all myths, this one is based on actual human experience—in this case, the experience of foreign invaders coming, killing the men, and carrying off the women. This has been a common practice since time immemorial for a very simple reason: Women are the bottleneck in expanding the size of a clan and nation.
Men can easily and happily father one child after another, night after night. Genghis Khan is estimated to have fathered at least several hundred children, and perhaps a thousand or more. Women, meanwhile, require a period of a year or two to produce a single child. (Yes, theoretically nine months, but women seldom get pregnant so soon after bearing a child. In the post-partum period their energy is spent nursing and caring for the new infant.) When it comes to mating, men are a dime a dozen, while women are extremely valuable. That’s why over the millennia women have been carefully guarded and protected, not to mention stolen from other tribes and nations, while men are sent out en masse to die in battle.
Even today there are thousands of Internet “mail-order bride” sites that serve as conduits for men from rich countries to import and marry women from poorer countries. There are no corresponding “mail-order husband” sites. Even today, rich and powerful men from wealthy nations are still taking women from poorer, less powerful nations and bearing children by them. And so the old story continues.
Did aliens really come and mate with humans and bear children by them in some mythical past age? Highly unlikely. Once again, this is based on a fear common to all cultures: that more powerful foreigners will overpower them, steal their women, and cut off their male bloodline. From there, it became the basis for many myths scattered throughout the cultures of the world. These myths do have a spiritual significance, as all myths do. But they are based on earthly human realities, not on real aliens coming down from the sky.
I think this covers most of your questions. I realize I gave short shrift to some of them. Perhaps I missed others altogether. Those were some long comments! 😀 If I did miss anything, or you want more on any of these questions, please feel free to continue the conversation.
Oh, one more thing. According to Swedenborg, the people on other planets are not as materialistic as the people on ours, and therefore don’t bother to develop science and technology. If he is right, that would explain why there is no real evidence of alien races zipping all around the galaxy in space ships. See:
Swedenborg’s Solution to the Fermi Paradox
Hi Lee,
Thank you very kindly for the in depth answers and going above and beyond on answering them! Sorry for the long comments and reposting twice thinking that it didn’t go through. I read the comment guidelines and I thought I over stepped with the amount of quotes and comments lol. And of course thank you kindly for your time especially this busy time of year.
My only question that I have so far is what would that mean for our spiritual self and the afterlife about the idea of our being genetically engineered by aliens? Would that hold any bearing on that? Because the guy Pye on the star child article made the comment “We don’t think that God did it, or that life spontaneously generated.” He sounds like he’s making aliens sound like gods of everything. A lot of people who talk about this stuff use this as a way to knock down spiritual experiences saying if aliens are real these other things (spiritual experiences / afterlife) aren’t.
Thank you again Lee for your guidance and clarity on these subjects.
Hi Sam,
No problem about the links. It’s just that I’ve set it up to hold for moderation any comment that has two or more links. Once I’ve had a chance to review the comment, I’ll approve it if it doesn’t turn out to be some sort of spam.
In answer to your question, I don’t think it’s necessary to speculate on what the idea of being genetically engineered by aliens means for our spiritual self and the afterlife because I don’t think there’s the slightest possibility that we were genetically engineered by aliens.
We share most of our DNA with every other form of life on earth, including plant life. If aliens genetically engineered us, they would have had to genetically engineer every living organism on the planet. That would be a big job! As it is, we humans don’t have any DNA that doesn’t fit with all the other DNA on the planet. If we had alien DNA in us because aliens mated with our monkey ancestors, it would be so different from the usual DNA of living organisms on this planet that it would be immediately obvious to geneticists that we have a different genetic line in us than any other animal or plant on the planet.
Meanwhile, as some of the articles you linked say, people who reject God and spirit are always looking for ways to account for our biology and origins that negate the usual spiritual explanations for where our life came from.
Unfortunately for them, aliens mating with earthlings wouldn’t solve the problem. Where did the aliens come from? How did they become so advanced? If life was neither created by God nor “spontaneously generated” (by which Pye apparently means that it came about through evolutionary processes, as scientists believe), then where did it come from in the first place? All the aliens-sleeping-with-humans theory does is kick the can down the road. Either the aliens’ advanced life forms and intelligence came from somewhere, or it’s just “turtles all the way down.”
And once again, there simply isn’t any real evidence that aliens have ever visited our planet. If there were, it would be common knowledge throughout the world, not hidden away in secret files and vaults somewhere.
Hi Lee,
Thank you so much! That makes so much sense what you said and really makes people who spread this type of stuff look ridiculous.
The spiritual reality means so much to me after loosing close loved ones so whenever I hear this aliens created reality therefore spiritual life isn’t real stuff It always causes me to freak out, and I’m naturally an over thinker to begin with.
But this maybe an over kill question but anything dealing with “Aliens” creating reality or whatever they come up with next, that in no way disproves spiritual reality? There’s so many people who experience angels / spirits and the afterlife and I have even experienced it in a form of an after death contact of a loved one. I heard them calling my name multiple times as clear as day and smelled their perfume and felt a warm hug and then they left.
And also what do you make of people like Bob Lazar? I wrote a bit a about him in my very long comment lol
Thank you again so much Lee and for allowing me to ask my crazy question and for giving such clarity.
Hi Sam,
I don’t follow the conspiracy theory stories much, so I don’t know anything particular about Bob Lazar. However, the Wikipedia page about him doesn’t inspire confidence in anything he claims.
Some UFO and alien abduction experiences probably are mischievous or outright evil spirits messing with people’s minds by planting hallucinations in them. But whether or not a person believes that spirits are involved, I do think that these are hallucinations, or other types of experiences induced in the minds of the people experiencing them rather than happening in material reality.
I do believe that your fears are being induced by the evil spirits around you in the spiritual world. (There are also good spirits and angels around you.) Evil spirits love to plant doubts and fears in people’s minds, especially when they have been through something traumatic. If you have had loved ones die, and you are “naturally an over-thinker,” then you would be a ripe target for them to ply their disquieting trade.
The best antidote to this is real knowledge of how the spiritual and natural worlds work, not to mention how God works. So keep asking away!
Doubts planted in our mind, although meant maliciously by the spirits who plant them, do have a useful function. (God doesn’t allow anything to happen that can’t have some good brought out of it.) When we have doubts, we go looking for answers. And if we persist in looking for answers, we will find them. As each doubt is overcome through new and deeper knowledge, our understanding and our faith become stronger and deeper.
By contrast, people who easily and uncritically accept this or that belief without any doubts and without looking into them carefully and examining them from all different angles tend to have a superficial and weak understanding and faith that are easily blown away by any serious challenges in their life.
In short, all of these doubts are causing you to look intensively for solid answers. And as Jesus said, “Seek and you will find” (Matthew 7:7–8).
Oh, and your experience of after-death communication is very common for people who have lost loved ones. Skeptics may scoff, but I believe these are real. I believe they are gifts from God to bring comfort and hope in the aftermath of losing a loved one.
Hi Lee,
Thank you very much for looking into that and what you said, says it all lol.
And what you said about evil spirits is so true. I feel like when you hold something dear to your heart it feels like almost like a tug o war within sometimes on the spiritual influence and conflicting auras between angels and hellish spirits. Before I began my spiritual path 3 ish years ago stuff like this would never cross my mind or bother me. But now like some days I have no doubt and so much confidence in God and my loved ones who passed and that everything will be ok. Then other times extreme doubt and I feel like things will show up in my life that will get me down like when a bully gets their kicks out of someone they put down.
I also remember reading a Swedenborg passage that really struck home. I don’t know what passage it was from but he was talking about how spirits made him look at disgusting things on the street and even though he didn’t want to look at it but the evil spirits were enjoying making him feel discomfort.
But just from asking the questions I have and receiving clarity I already feel like my faith is tremendously strengthened. Because I’ve had these types of questions unanswered for about a year now but no one ever wanted to answer them because they thought it was ridiculous. But to me I always bring the question back to what does this mean for spirituality and the afterlife? But thank you for allowing me to ask and giving guidance because I feel like God is working overtime on me and trying to work with my state and give answers of reinsurance. lol
And I’ve come to the acceptance that skeptic will never accept spiritual truths no matter what it can be shown clear as day and they will still deny or come up with an excuse. I think Swedenborg and the Bible say that as well.
I have one more question with this with another YT clip but that is for the AI technology article you wrote.
I pray one day I will have so much faith and angels on my side I’ll never have to feel anxious doubts again! Thank you so so very much for your time and your help! I can’t thank you enough for your reinsurance on these topics! I can actually sleep at night! lol
God bless!
Hi Sam,
That is very good to hear. You are most welcome!
Your faith will strengthen over time if you keep at it, keep asking questions, and keep learning. I hope that by now you have gotten a copy of Swedenborg’s Heaven and Hell, and are reading it. That will give you a much more comprehensive view and understanding of the afterlife than I can give here.
Our struggles do continue to the end of this life. That is part of our process of regeneration—or being born again, to use the biblical term. And doubts will arise along the way. But if we build a solid foundation of faith for ourselves, then we can weather those storms and those doubts, and come out stronger on the other side.
And yes, it’s best just to accept that skeptics will be skeptics and atheists will be atheists. Their spiritual life is in God’s hands. It’s not necessary for us to attempt to argue them into belief. We can have a firm belief even if they do not.
I should also mention that atheists don’t necessarily go to hell, as traditional Christians believe. See:
Do Atheists Go to Heaven?
Hi Lee,
I forgot to add on the last post but I figured it would fit better here that there is a very short article on how some scientist think octopuses are from alien origin because of their genes and intelligence are so different from their supposed ancestors that in a million years they don’t think they could evolve that fast.
This is the very short article I never heard of this interpretation of the evidence. But wouldn’t this be the case if interpreting based on their views like you said?
https://answersingenesis.org/kids/sea-animals/out-this-world-thinking/
Thank you again Lee
Also I forgot to say Merry Christmas and blessings to you and your family. I wanted to say that now before I forget!
Lee doesn’t trust AiG.
Hi Sam,
Yeah, I wouldn’t trust any “scientific” statements made on the AiG site. They are Young-Earth Creationists who believe the world was literally created in six days about six thousand years ago, and who therefore reject evolution as false. They are always looking for “evidence” to show that evolution didn’t really happen. But as with most Christian fundamentalists, their grasp of science and scientific principles is spotty at best, and laughable at worst.
Some scientists do believe that earth has been seeded with life, or at least components of life, that have arrived on earth within comets and asteroids that have collided with earth. To my knowledge, this hasn’t yet been demonstrated, but then again, I’m not an astrobiologist, so I may not be up on the latest findings.
Regardless of whether or not this planet was seeded with life by comets and asteroids that originated in other life-bearing planets, this doesn’t really change the picture of how life originated. If life, or components of life, were carried here from other planets, it still would have had to develop on those planets. The question would therefore remain as to how life originated in the first place.
Hi Sam,
Also, thanks for your Christmas greetings. Blessings to you and yours as well!
Hi Lee,
Thank you for the further explanation on this. I never even heard of AiG until recently but I definitely don’t follow them at all or align with their views.
I never used to be a Bible reading person but after getting to know Swedenborg through some of his Secrets of Heaven books (even tho they where just snippets) it really made the Bible more practical and meaningful because of the deeper spiritual connection.
But just a question on what you said about the possibility of having asteroids bringing life to earth… what does that mean for our spiritual life if say something like that is found? Does it have any bearing on our spiritual lives and the afterlife? Or would this be just ways of God created the universe and how they unfolded? Like how Swedenborg says Divine Providence?
Thank you so much Lee and thank you for the blessings as well!
Hi Sam,
It would just be part of how God arranged for life to become possible on this earth. Creating life is a very complex process. We’re always learning about new twists and turns in the process.
I do believe that there is a spiritual influence in the creation of biological life. After all, the life itself is spiritual, not physical. Still, in the physical world there have to be the right conditions and ingredients for organisms to initially arise as living things, and then evolve into more and more complex forms until they become something suitable for housing a human soul.
It doesn’t really matter how the conditions and ingredients for life are created and brought together. But learning just how amazing and intricate and unlikely the process is that led to us does give me, and many others, a sense of wonder about our existence.
Hi Lee,
That makes so much sense especially on how there is a spiritual influence because life is spiritual and since all matter is dead until spiritualized. So it’s like the universe is the container and our spirit is like water and it doesn’t really matter how the container was made or its shape because the water filling it is separate and untouched regardless of the container. Thats my analogy I just came up with just now lol.
But thank you on the reinsurance of spiritual life regardless of how it comes to be in the material reality.
Thank you again Lee
Hi Sam,
Great analogy!
On what post of yours should I have posted this comment on?
It would be nice if the Bible taught that mankind was created in one world, but after they sinned, they were cursed to leave that world and be incarnated in a physical world where Darwinian evolution occurs and all have common descent. Unfortunately, that’s not consistent with the flood, because Cain would have to live in the physical world, but there was a flood later, and while the most recent universal flood would have been the end of the last ice age 11,000 years ago, that’s not consistent with the genetics of modern humans since some populations have Neanderthal DNA and some others have Denisovan DNA, and both subspecies of humans died out long before 11,000 B.C. The alternative that humans were incarnated from the spiritual world into the physical world between the Flood and Abraham doesn’t work, because there was death before the flood.
Actually, that’s one of the paragraphs of a blog post I have scheduled for December. The blog post will discuss the validity of Christianity and other Abrahamic religions, as well as the alternatives Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism, and the Multiverse Afterlife Theory.
Can you respond to this comment, Lee?
Hi World Questioner,
The Bible doesn’t teach all that stuff because that’s not how things work.
In the beginning God created “the heavens and the earth,” meaning, in one way of reading it, the spiritual realm and the physical realm. Not only does this mean the spiritual and physical realms as a whole (the spiritual universe and the material universe), but it also means that we humans are created with a spiritual part and a physical part. The spiritual part is our spirit; the physical part is our physical body. This was God’s intention from the very start—so much so that it is embodied in the very first verse of the Bible.
God then placed us in the “garden” of the physical world, to grow and develop here and become spiritual beings.
While the Bible is not a theological text providing discursive explanations of various theological topics, this arrangement of God from the very beginning is present throughout the entire story of the Bible. Attempting to impose some other cosmology on the Bible, such as pre-created humans who are incarnated on this plane, multiverses, and so on, is entirely artificial.
Occam’s razor applies here: the simplest explanation is the best. And the simplest explanation of the Bible’s scenario is that we are created to begin our life in the physical world, and after this lifetime is over, to continue our life forever in the spiritual world. There is no need to come up with fancy alternative theories when this one works perfectly well, and fits the Bible narrative like a glove.
I’m actually talking about an attempt to harmonize the first 11 chapters of Genesis with evolution. The two would be in perfect harmony if the former took place in the spiritual world and the latter took place in the physical world.
Adamic descent in the original world where mankind was created, and evolution from apes in the world that humans are cursed to be incarnated in after the Fall of Sin.
I already mentioned the problems with the idea that Genesis chapter 3 and onward take place in the physical world (no evidence for a global flood 4,300 years ago, and DNA of Neanderthals and Denisovans in modern populations even though these two subspecies became extinct long before the last ice age ended 11,000 B.C., so a universal blood at that time doens’t work) and the problems with Genesis up to Chapter 11 taking place in the spiritual world (death before Chapter 12).
Maybe the genealogies from Adam to Noah and Noah to Abraham are spiritual genealogies, not physical genealogies.
Maybe spiritual years are longer than physical years. For every physical year that passes, many spiritual years pass. That’s just one idea. But there’s a problem – 6,000 years, the supposed creationist time in the spiritual world, is much shorter than 4,500,000,000 years, the supposed evolutionary time in the physical world.
Hi World Questioner,
Why not just go all the way, and recognize that these early chapters of Genesis aren’t meant to be taken literally at all?
What about progressive revelation, as mentioned in https://www.gotquestions.org/old-testament.html? The Old Testament lays the foundation for the New Testament. You said that the first 11 chapters of Genesis 1-11 are a myth, but it doesn’t make sense for a myth to be a foundation.
Hi World Questioner,
The article you linked is a nice attempt to salvage the Old Testament on the part of Christians who do not really understand what the Old Testament is about, or that its sacredness is due to its spiritual meaning. It’s about the best that biblical literalists and materialists are going to do. But it still doesn’t salvage large sections of the Old Testament that, for example, prescribe numerous sacrifices that are not practiced by Christians, and are no longer even practiced by Jews. We really don’t need to know all the details of the sacrifices in Leviticus in order to understand that Jesus was the sacrifice that brought all those sacrifices to an end. So why, from this perspective, should we bother reading the book of Leviticus? Perhaps read it once just to learn about ancient Jewish sacrificial practices as a foreshadowing of Jesus’ sacrifice, but after that, it’s sort of useless, isn’t it?
The general idea of progressive revelation isn’t necessarily wrong. As time goes by, we can receive greater and clearer revelations. But it doesn’t account for why we can receive greater and clearer revelations.
But much worse, in the hands of people who hold to a materialistic Christian belief as do the authors of that article, it gives the impression that now that we have the New Testament, the Old Testament is largely outdated, and is of use only in providing background for the New Testament, plus a few nice moral lessons.
In other words, it downgrades the Old Testament from a current revelation to one that was largely of use in its own time, but is now mostly outdated or simply the background information for the New Testament.
From a New Church (Swedenborgian) perspective, this is an entirely wrong perspective on the Old Testament. The Old Testament is not still in the Word of God merely because it provides the background for the New Testament, and some nice moral and spiritual lessons. It is part of the Word of God because at a deeper level it tells the story of Jesus’ inner life on earth, meaning his process of glorification and his victory over the power of evil, by which he redeemed humanity two thousand years ago, and saves those who turn to him even today.
About the first eleven chapters of Genesis, they are not a “myth” in the sense of being untrue, but in the sense of having deeper meanings that are the real meaning of the stories.
No sensible person who reads the myth of Pegasus striking Mt. Helicon with his hoof and creating the spring of the Muses there thinks it’s literally about creating a spring so that people can drink physical water from it. Everything in the myth is symbolic of higher human and divine realities.
Unfortunately, once again, materialism has caused these ancient myths to be derided as “myths” in the sense of old, false stories of things that never happened. The materialists completely miss the point of the myths because they cannot raise their minds to a higher level. They think these stories are about an actual horse striking a physical mountain and causing a spring of water to come out of it, which is obviously silly. That’s not how things work. Nor did the original authors of the myths think that’s how things worked. They were telling symbolic stories using physical imagery. Today’s secular materialists are such dunces that they don’t realize this.
It’s the same with the religious dunces who think that the Bible is all about physical things that happened historically just as they are described in the Bible. As a result, they trivialize the Old Testament, considering it old, outdated revelation that has now been largely replaced by the New Testament, which is the latest, greatest, and last revelation in their schema of “progressive revelation.” It’s not really any different than Muslims believing that the Qur’an now surpasses both the Old and New Testaments, so that now there’s not all that much need to read the Bible anymore—only the Qur’an.
This is the problem of the idea of progressive revelation. It downgrades the Old Testament, making it an ugly stepchild in the canon of the Bible compared to the New Testament.
In fact, the Old Testament, including the first eleven chapters of the Bible, is every bit as relevant today as at was when it was first written over two thousand years ago. It’s just that only people who are not materialistic, and whose eyes are opened to see the spiritual and divine truth hidden within it, can see that relevance and meaning. See:
How God Speaks in the Bible to Us Boneheads
I know the people who write these articles mean well. But they have a flat, literalistic, and materialistic view of the Bible. They have completely missed the very reason that it is the Word of God, which is that from beginning to end, inwardly it tells the story of the Lord’s glorification. In other words, it is entirely about Jesus, just as he told us in Luke 24:27, 44. It is also of our own process of regeneration, or spiritual rebirth. These deeper meanings make every part of it, including the entire inspired Old Testament, every bit as divine and relevant today as it ever was.
Why did I propose that spiritual years are longer than physical years? Oops! I meant that spiritual years are shorter. Maybe there are like 12 spiritual years for every physical year. Why did I propose this? Because of the long lives before the Flood. However, the long lives don’t become short like 100 years or less at once. They become progressively shorter starting with Shem. Peleg’s life was short because the Earth was divided, sometimes claimed by Creationists as referring to rapid continental drift. The Hebrew word for “Earth” actually means “land,” not land and sea.
Hi World Questioner,
You’re still trying to make those stories literally true, as if they were historical records. As long as you keep trying to do that, you will never be able to understand what the early chapters of the Bible are really about.
It’s not because I want them to be literally true.
How do I explain this? I want to be rational. Not just twist the meaning of any Bible verse. I do want the truth. I haven’t explained it quite.
It’s just that, I don’t feel that they were meant to be taken as myth. They are too intricate to have a spiritual meaning. The parables were not intricate like that.
How do I explain this.
Hi World Questioner,
How can something be “too intricate to have a spiritual meaning”? Do you think spiritual things are simplistic?
The Genesis creation narrative, and the flood narrative, are not written like the parables that Jesus told. They are also written in the style of a historical narrative unlike creation myths around the world, such as the Epic of Gilgamesh and the Enuma Elish.
The Genesis creation story feels too informative, especially the genealogies.
Hi World Questioner,
The Creation and Flood narratives are not parables in the usual sense of that word. Parables are brief vignettes that are obviously meant to be figurative, not literal. The early chapters of Genesis, by contrast, are written in a historical narrative style, as you say. They are not brief stand-alone stories like Jesus’ parables, but extended narratives that move from one story and event to the next in sequence.
Having said that, the two Creation stories in Genesis 1:1–2:3 and Genesis 2:4–23 don’t really follow one after another in sequence like a story. They are two entirely distinct Creation stories, each one self-contained, one providing a very different account of Creation than the other. Only after the second Creation story does it settle into a continuous narrative.
So right out the gate, there is a strong indication that these early chapters of Genesis are not meant to be taken literally. The people who wrote down these two Creation stories and placed them one after another in the book of Genesis were surely not so dim-witted that they would not notice that the two stories conflict with one another in many ways if read literally. But since they didn’t read them literally, that wasn’t a problem.
Just because a story is written in the style of a historical narrative, that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s meant to be taken literally. Most novels are written in this style, but no one thinks this means the authors are claiming that all these events actually happened. Even historical novels are commonly based only very loosely on actual historical events. For the most part, they use a particular historical period and its characters and culture as the background for the human dramas they want to tell.
If thousands, even millions of authors today use a historical narrative style to tell stories that are not meant to be read as actual historical accounts, why couldn’t authors of ancient times do the same? In fact, we have many myths and legends from those early time periods that read like accounts of actual events, but that no thinking person believes are meant to tell actual historical events. The two that you mention are among these early mythical texts.
Using a historical narrative style to tell figurative and symbolic stories has been very common throughout human history. There is every reason to believe that the stories in the early chapters of Genesis are similar in using that style to tell a non-literal story.