In 1975 Raymond Moody published his book Life After Life. It became an instant bestseller, sparking an intense popular interest in near-death experiences (NDEs) that has continued to grow ever since. Suddenly there was new light shining on a part of human experience that had been shrouded in mystery before. Suddenly we had up-do-date reports on the afterlife from ordinary people.
Though Moody’s was the first popular book on NDEs, it was not the first material to be published containing descriptions of what happens to us when we die. Various articles and a few books had already been published touching on the subject of NDEs in the years leading up to Moody’s book. There was a quiet buildup of investigation and reporting leading to the wide open door of Life After Life.
Even before that buildup though, there had long been texts containing descriptions of what happens to us when we die. For example, from the East we have The Tibetan Book of the Dead. From Africa we have The Egyptian Book of the Dead. In the West we have Heaven and Hell, by Emanuel Swedenborg. In this book I will focus on Swedenborg’s descriptions of the transition begun by death, putting them in a wider context and exploring their meaning for our spiritual growth during our lives.
When Emanuel Swedenborg began his career in the early 1700s he had no thought of visiting the spiritual world or becoming a spiritual seer. Though he was the son of a prominent Lutheran bishop, his fascination was with science and engineering—and that was where he wanted to make his mark on the world.
He did exceptionally well. Soon after his studies were finished he was appointed to the Swedish Board of Mines, which oversaw the most important industry in Sweden. Swedenborg served faithfully in this post for many years, doing everything from creating mining regulations to descending into the mines themselves to conduct inspections and suggest improvements.
When his family was ennobled by the Swedish queen, as the eldest surviving son Swedenborg took a seat in the House of Nobles of the Swedish Parliament. He served in this post for the rest of his life, whenever he was in Sweden. His contributions to the Parliament showed a pragmatic concern for the well-being of his country.
Even with these important posts he was not satisfied. His mind was restless. He wanted a comprehensive grasp of science and human nature. He studied all the sciences of his day, and wrote groundbreaking books and articles on mechanics, engineering, mathematics, physics, cosmology, metallurgy, chemistry, anatomy, psychology, and many other subjects. Due to his scientific work, he was elected to the Royal Swedish Academy of Science. (See The Swedenborg Epic, by Cyriel Odhner Sigstedt. London: Swedenborg Society, 1981, p. 162.)
As time went on, he focused his studies increasingly on the human body. By this time he had set a difficult task for himself: he wanted to find the human soul. He thought he could do this by studying the body. But the more painstaking his researches, the further he seemed to be from finding the soul.
When he was in his mid-fifties, he went through a spiritual crisis, marked by many vivid dreams and visions. He said the Lord appeared to him and gave him a new mission: to study the spiritual realm. He tells us that God then opened his spiritual eyes so that he could be conscious in the material world and the spiritual world at the same time.
It was a difficult struggle for Swedenborg to give up his hopes for worldly fame and go on a spiritual journey. He knew he would be attacked and ridiculed by many educated and influential people. Still, he accepted God’s call, and for the last thirty years of his life he wrote on spiritual rather than scientific subjects.
This resulted in extensive and detailed descriptions of the spiritual world—including an account of what it is like to die and the changes we go through afterwards. Many of these descriptions are contained in his most popular book, Heaven and Hell. Others are scattered throughout the thirty plus volumes of his religious writings.
Swedenborg described several stages that we go through when we die. The chapters of this book take up each of Swedenborg’s stages in order. For each stage, there is a brief introduction, an abridged version of Swedenborg’s description of that stage, and my own thoughts on how this relates to our spiritual growth. Along the way, I will draw parallels with NDEs as described in various books on the subject.
(Note: This is the Introduction to my book Death and Rebirth, first published in 2005. This text and associated artwork are copyright 2005 by Lee Woofenden.)
For Chapter 1, click here.
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Lee Woofenden is an ordained minister, writer, editor, translator, and teacher. He enjoys taking spiritual insights from the Bible and the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg and putting them into plain English as guides for everyday life.
Spiritual Insights for Everyday Life 
The Bible says only 144000 people will go to Heaven and everyone else will be reborn on Earth . This does not tie on with Swedenborgs findings does it ? How can you dispute the word of God in the Bible ?
Hi Dave,
Thanks for your comment and question.
I am aware that the Jehovah’s Witness organization says this.
But the Bible itself simply doesn’t say it. In fact, it says the opposite. It is the JW organization that “disputes the word of God in the Bible.”
As I’ll explain in a moment, if we read the book of Revelation literally (which is not a very good idea), it says that the 144,000 are on earth, and that the great multitude from all nations that no one can count is in heaven. So even with a literal reading of the Bible, the JW organization has it exactly backwards.
There are two places in the Bible, both in the book of Revelation, where the 144,000 are mentioned. Here they are, quoted in full:
Notice that all of the action associated with the 144,000 here is taking place on earth, not in heaven.
And:
Once again, notice that this passage focuses on the earth, not on heaven.
In particular the first verse says that the 144,000 were with the Lamb on Mount Zion. Now, Mount Zion is located in Jerusalem right here on earth. It is often used in the Bible to refer to Jerusalem, or to the Temple Mount in Jerusalem where the ancient Israelites built their Temple to Jehovah. So if we read the book of Revelation literally, the 144,000 are with the Lamb on earth, not in heaven.
In short, neither of these passages says anything about the 144,000 being resurrected to live in heaven. Everything associated with the 144,000 happens on earth, and they themselves are described as being at Mount Zion, which is on earth.
Further, if we read Revelation literally, the 144,000 will all be Jews, not Jehovah’s Witnesses. There are 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes of Israel. Jehovah’s Witnesses are not descended from the twelve tribes of Israel. They are not biological Jews. They come from all different races and nationalities. So the JW organization is just plain wrong to claim that the 144,000 spoken of in the book of Revelation will be Jehovah’s Witnesses. Rather, they will be Jews.
Meanwhile, the very next verse after the ones quoted earlier from Revelation 7 says:
Now, the throne of the Lamb is not on earth, but in heaven, as we read in Revelation 4:
The chapter goes on to describe the one on the throne, and all of the elders and creatures around the one on the throne, praising him and giving him glory. Exactly who is seated on the throne is a little complicated when Revelation is taken literally. In various places in the book both God and the Lamb are mentioned as sitting on the throne. But it is clear enough that the Lamb’s throne is in heaven, not on earth.
This means that John saw “a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages” in heaven, not on earth.
So once again, if we take the book of Revelation literally, as JWs generally do, it is exactly the opposite of what the JW organization says. According to Revelation, the 144,000 are with the Lamb on earth, in or around Jerusalem, and they are all Israelites (Jews). And the great multitude of people from all nations (i.e., non-Jews) that no one could count are surrounding the Lamb in heaven.
If religious organizations are going to take the Bible literally, they should at least read it accurately.
The JW organization is ignoring the plain words of the Bible in favor of their own human doctrinal inventions. They claim that the Bible say things it simply doesn’t say—even if the book of Revelation and similar passages elsewhere in the Bible are read as literally predicting future events that will take place on earth.
However, the book of Revelation was never meant to be taken literally. Everything John describes in it he saw in heaven, not on earth. So the idea that the events described in the book of Revelation are going to take place physically on this earth has no support whatsoever in the book of Revelation.
It helps to understand that the Greek words traditionally translated “heaven” and “earth” can also mean “sky” and “land.” John says he saw everything when he was “in the spirit.” So the “sky” and “land” (“heaven” and “earth”) that he mentions in the vision are the sky and the land of the spiritual world, not the sky and the land of the physical world.
For more on this, please see:
Is the World Coming to an End? What about the Second Coming?
Hi Lee
What do you make of people who agree that swedenborg had out of body experiences but compare them so they are of the same level ?
So in a sense swedenborgs experience are the same as Ashleys from Chicago who has had out of body experiences to the spiritual world
Hi AJ749,
Thanks for your comment and question.
Here are two question in response: Did the out of body experiences to the spiritual world of Ashley from Chicago go on for twenty-seven years? And was Ashley from Chicago prepared for her spiritual experience by deeply studying the sum total of the science and philosophy of humankind?
Comparing Swedenborg’s extensive experience in the spiritual world with that of Ashley from Chicago, who probably spent all of an hour or two, or perhaps a few days at most, in the spiritual world, is like comparing someone who borrowed a friend’s telescope and looked at the moon, planets, and stars through it for a few days to an astronomer who has spent his or her entire career studying the cosmos using the full array of advanced earth-based and orbital telescopes and other scientific instruments. See the section titled, “2. Swedenborg’s experience in the spiritual world was unique in known history” in the article, “Do the Teachings of Emanuel Swedenborg take Precedence over the Bible?”
And did Ashley from Chicago spend four decades mastering all the known sciences, and write books about many of them, before spending nearly three decades traveling in the spiritual world, and writing another forty or fifty volumes of material on spiritual subjects? Did those volumes address some of the most difficult questions and problems of human life, offering new rationally and morally satisfying answers to them? Did Ashley’s voluminous writings cover the gamut of tough philosophical issues from a position of having studied the great philosophers and theologians of history? Did they offer an new way of reading the Bible, resolving all of the difficulties, contradictions, and scientific impossibilities that result from a literal reading of the Bible?
In short, are the brief spiritual experiences of Ashley from Chicago really on the same level as the extensive spiritual experiences of one of the greatest and most broadly learned minds of all time?
Lee that makes absolutely the most sense , i just find it really annoying that those who say they had OBEs and visited the spiritual world or in other words the world of spirits think they know how the spiritual world works and how it affects humanity and then they discredit swedenborg
Hi AJ749,
The world is full of “instant experts”: people who have one or two experiences, or read one or two books, and think this makes them experts on a particular subject. The reality is that if you want to become skilled, knowledgeable, and expert on something, you have to put in the time and the work. Swedenborg put in the time and the work. Most of his detractors did not.
Hi Lee it makes sense what you say, do you also think that they all say different things to each other as well indicates that the furthest they could go is the world of spirits ?
Hi AJ749,
It’s not so much that they only go as far as the world of spirits, as that they aren’t in the other realm long enough to move out of a transitional phase into a settled residency in the spiritual world.
According to Swedenborg, when we die we are initially met by the highest, heavenly angels. This is the reason for the supreme warmth and peace that so many NDEers report when they enter the spiritual world. And it is an experience of heaven. However, it is temporary. Before long, people who die permanently leave these heavenly angels, and go through a succession of lower angels before settling into a life in the world of spirits, where they reside for a longer or shorter time before moving on to their final home in heaven or hell.
Very few people who have experiences of the spiritual world, most commonly through an NDE, are in the spiritual world long enough to move out of the initial temporary, transitional phase. This means that they do not have any experience of what “regular life” is like in the spiritual world, regardless of whether that life is in the world of spirits, in heaven, or in hell. Relying on their version of what the spiritual world is like would be like relying on someone who flew to Africa for a few days, and then flew back, to tell us what it is like to live in Africa. Yes, they’ve been to Africa. But they haven’t lived in Africa. They simply don’t have the experience of living in the place that they are reporting about.
Before one has consciousness as a single person was there God’s consciousness before then, or eternal oblivion? In other words, if one could do real “regression” to the time before birth, would they arrive at God’s awareness before then? Or would it just be nothing?
Hi K,
Of course, God’s consciousness pre-exists ours, and is the ultimate source of ours. So in a sense, if we did “real regression” to a time before our present life, then yes, we would arrive at God’s consciousness. On another level of “real regression,” we would go back to our biological parents’ consciousness, since that is the more immediate source of our existence and consciousness.
But just to be clear, our individual consciousness does not exist before our conception and birth. In neither case would we be regressing to anything that is us. Each new conception and birth is the beginning of a brand new consciousness that has not existed before. It is not the recycling of a previously existing created (non-God) consciousness. Both God’s consciousness and our parents’ consciousness continue to exist. Meaning those previous consciousnesses are not transformed into ours, as in reincarnation theory, but ours is a newly created consciousness.
For a related article, please see:
The Bible, Emanuel Swedenborg, and Reincarnation
Hi Lee,
With what you said regarding NDEs would that apply to this as well? I remembering reading a few articles from by Michael Tymn he has a book called Afterlife Revealed (there’s other authors as well like Robert Crookall, Steve Beckow’s New Maps of Heaven, Miles Edward Allen’s The realities of Heaven – 50 spirits describe your future home, Dennis Grega and Michelle Szabo’s Afterlife Data (afterlifedata dot com). And he gathered all the similar things that mostly mediums and spiritual experiencers have said. And including “gathering data on every continent and they were all “consistent” from over “100 years”. Like how me “must move past the astral plane” and they assembled what the afterlife is like based on mostly mediums or other kinds of spiritual experiences. (Apparently there’s all kinds of different mediums and ways to experience spiritual reality?)
I also heared people doing joint Out-of-body explorations or spiritual experiences together all in different locations with for example five people and they would meeting out of body and then all come back with the same info and they “cross collaborate” with people who are alive and dead over the phone or email. What do you make of this?
Yet these “group experiences” and “100 years of consistent data” contradict with other experiences. Is this because these peoples states were similar therefore having the same experience together and same conclusions? And again these people push themselves as “authority” because of these experiences?
And on the same note I have one more question is I heard from people like on the Michael Tymn website article called “Death Bed Mist and lights” even Raymond Moody called it “Shared Death Experiences” when people are dying there’s a mist or a light the comes out of the body like the back of the head or neck. Some call it the “silver cord” and “ectoplasm” and how “physical” materialization of our loved ones would be in the room like “physical mediumship”. But how some people say that mist and light is the spirit leaving the body and therefore again making us a wisp. This is the article there is another one on there as well talking about it http://whitecrowbooks.com/michaeltymn/entry/strange_deathbed_mist_light_explained/
What do you make of this as well? This has always caused me great anxiety because I never understood this and what this means for our afterlife experience?
Thank you very much again Lee
So sorry I also forgot to mention is if you go on the that same website and type in ( “Soul Mist” – the most popular subject )that was the newer follow up article on the subject than the one I found the link to above (there could be newer ones since I last read it on there) but I wanted to include that as well.
Thank you Lee
Hi Sam,
I think I’ve now responded to all your main questions in this round. But if I missed anything important, please do let me know.
Hi Sam,
It’s good to keep three things in mind when evaluating all these researches:
On the first one, people commonly think that when they have a spiritual experience, they are having an experience of heaven (and occasionally of hell). But in almost every case, their experience will not be of heaven (or of hell), but of the world of spirits.
The world of spirits, as Swedenborg describes it, is where people first go after they die ad leave their physical body and the physical world behind. There, people continue to think, feel, and live exactly as they did while they were still living on earth. For most of them, change takes place only gradually. People may live in the world of spirits years or even a few decades before they have gone through the changes and the learning process required to enter their permanent homes in either heaven or hell.
Most of that change involves peeling off any outward masks that did not correspond to their real inner character. Toward the end, those who are heading for heaven are also given instruction on the true nature of God, the spiritual world, salvation, and life in heaven. Up until then, most will continue to believe whatever they had believed during their lifetime in the material world, whether those beliefs were true or false.
These people living in the world of spirits are the ones that most people contact when they come in contact with the spiritual world, because the world of spirits is psychologically and spiritually closest to our state of mind during our lifetime here on earth.
Perhaps you can see where I’m going with this.
If most NDEers, OBEers, mediums, and people who have other types of spiritual experiences are making contact with recently arrived spirits in the world of spirits, not with angels in heaven (or demons in hell), that means the people they are contacting still believe the same things they did while they were living on this earth. If they believed in reincarnation, they still believe in reincarnation. If they believed that the spirit is an orb of light, they still believe that the spirit is an orb of light. If they believed that we eventually become gods, or part of God, then they still believe the same thing while they are living in the world of spirits.
And guess what they’re going to tell the people who contact them?
If you guessed, “Exactly what they believed on earth,” then you get a gold star! 😀
The second and third points above fill in the rest of the picture. The world of spirits is a vast place, and it tends to sort itself into areas where people who have similar beliefs congregate.
This means that someone who is inclined to believe in reincarnation can make contact with an entire vast city or nation in the world of spirits full of people who believe in reincarnation. They can explore whole areas full of this belief, and all the spirits living there will give them a thousand reasons why reincarnation is the truest and most spiritual and enlightened belief possible.
Those making contact with these areas of the world of spirits have no idea that this is really just one relatively small pocket of the vast intermediate realm between heaven and hell that Swedenborg calls the world of spirit. They think it represents the entire spiritual world. Precisely because it is so big.
If aliens were to be dropped into Australia, and spent months or even years exploring it, but had no idea that Australia was only one continent on an entire planet that has six more continents, what would those aliens think earth was like? They would think it was all like Australia, and that Australia was the whole thing! What if instead they were dropped off in Antarctica, and that’s all they knew existed on the earth? Would they have a realistic picture of Earth as a whole?
This is what’s going on when people “explore the spiritual world,” and find that it confirms everything they believe about reincarnation, or spirits being balls of light, or people going to higher and higher realms until they become godlike beings, or even become God. They are seeing only one big, but still limited, area of the world of spirits. They are not seeing the entire picture of the spiritual world as a whole. They are seeing only what confirms their already existing beliefs, because under the rules of the spiritual world, we are naturally drawn toward people who share our beliefs and attitudes.
It’s also good to keep in mind, once again, that most of these visits to the spiritual world are very brief. There just isn’t time to explore all the different regions of the spiritual world as Swedenborg did. And even Swedenborg was mostly limited to the areas of the spiritual world inhabited by the people from this planet, and mostly from the European world that he himself came from. He did see some of the other areas of the spiritual world, such as the Muslim areas. But the spiritual world is just too vast to explore all of it even in the nearly thirty years that Swedenborg had to explore it. And that was far more time than anyone else in history has ever spent exploring the spiritual world.
In short: Don’t worry about people who say that the spiritual realms are this and the spiritual realms are that. Most of this is based on experiences of only a very small part of the world of spirits, where people live for a while after death, and continue to believe the same things they believed here on earth.
Hi Sam,
About the misty form leaving people at death:
What people are seeing leaving the physical body is not the actual spiritual body. In the spiritual world, our spiritual body is just as solid and real as our physical body is here on earth. Rather, I suspect that what they are seeing is the “border made of the finest substances in nature” that Swedenborg says (in True Christianity #103) we take with us when we die. This would appear wispy and diaphanous to our physical eyes. But it is not our spiritual body.
Alternatively, people may be seeing this apparition with their spiritual eyes, not their physical eyes. This is not uncommon around the time of someone’s death, when the spiritual world makes a closer approach to the physical world. However, when this happens, the spiritual eyes are usually opened only partially. People therefore do not see the full reality, brightness, and solidity of the spiritual world. Only a thin and wispy shadow of it. Anyone who has had a real, full-sensory experience of the spiritual world would not mistake this wispy shadow for the real thing.
Hi Lee,
Thank you very much for the fantastic very in depth information and clarification on these subjects. There’s so much confusion out there regarding the afterlife with their crazy woo-woo interpretations. Your website along with Offthelefteye bring so much sense and understanding and a foundation for understanding physical and spiritual reality that no where else has to offer. All the rest it’s just utter confusion and stress inducing!
And regarding spirit communities, that makes so much sense and really connects so many of the dots on why certain messages come through, how, and even why. I remember hearing about a medium that would go into trance I think but she would speak all kinds of different languages from the spirits coming through. But like you said all these people along with her are being attracted together in the world of spirits. Even people like Edgar Cayce all his afterlife info would be spirits and himself being attracted together because being like minded. I remember reading on one of your blogs about this but just hearing it explain again and how it fits really makes it sink in lol.
And what you said regarding our spiritual eyes being partially open, it reminds me because since our spirit is using our body as a tool to operate in the physical world, seeing through physical eyes is like seeing through rose tinted glasses. Everything’s going to appear materialistic since those are the glasses we are peering through. (Those are just some random thoughts flowing in lol)
Would what you said with our spiritual eyes being partially open apply to when Raymond moody talks about shared death experiences when people in the room can “see a portal to another dimension open up” ? And when Swedenborg talks about a “border substance in nature” that would be still considered material reality since it’s in nature? Ive heard this interpretation of “our astral bodies are stuck into our physical bodies via ectoplasm that literally glues our spirit and physical bodies together, and we can see it escape in people as they die.”?
People talk about us having a “etheric body” and “astral body” would this be that?
I also found the article and linked it below. This article here is the more newer one to the other article. I’m not sure if this article makes any difference.
http://whitecrowbooks.com/michaeltymn/entry/soul_mist_the_most_popular_subject/
Thank you very much Lee
Hi Sam,
You are most welcome. I’m glad to help.
If a group of people see a portal open up to the spiritual world, then that would be seen with their spiritual eyes, not their physical eyes, even if it is superimposed on what their physical eyes are seeing. It is possible for both sets of eyes to be open at the same time. And there’s nothing stopping a spiritual experience from being shared by a group rather than being seen only by an individual.
Many instances of this are described in the Bible, such as Abraham and Sarah both seeing the angel visitors, not to mention all the people of Sodom seeing the two angels who visited Lot. Another example is the angels seen by the women who visited Jesus’ tomb. Angels are spiritual beings. They can be seen only with our spiritual eyes. But these stories also show that we can see things with our spiritual eyes that are superimposed on our natural surroundings.
Yes, the “finest substances of nature” that Swedenborg says we take with us would be material substances, not spiritual substances. How that works, I don’t think anyone knows, because Swedenborg never provides any fuller explanation of it. It’s definitely a head-scratcher. But it seems to me to be the most likely explanation for the mist or ectoplasm people see rising above people’s bodies when they die. I presume that “glue” is a metaphor, and not something to be taken literally.
I also presume that the etheric body and the astral body are the same thing, and that these are just different terms applied to the spiritual body. But of course, different people have different beliefs. Many people think that spiritual things are wispy and ethereal, so they picture the etheric or astral body as wispy and ethereal. Even OTLE shows spirits as wispy beings—which, I think, is a mistake on the channel’s part. It feeds into the idea that spirits are less solid and real than people on earth, when the opposite is true. The Bible’s portrayal of angels as looking exactly like humans still living on earth is more realistic.
I did skim through the article you linked. I didn’t see anything in it that seemed to require further comment. But if there’s anything in it you wanted to ask about, ask away!
Hi Lee,
Thank you very kindly again for the explanation on these subjects. And how these experiences aren’t new and are in the Bible even though people make them sound like “breakthrough news” but aren’t. But I also agree with you I wish OTLE used solid looking people than glowing outlines of people because in the New Age community they literally believe this and along with the “glue” like they actually think our spirit is “stuck” by some “ectoplasm”. It’s funny because just as there is fundamental Christians and learning so much on your website I notice how the New Age religion is a fundamentalist of literally believing the descriptions like the Bible instead of their spiritual correspondence which then in turns take away the meaning and turns it materialistic.
But the only thing I can think of related to this article and this concept is what are your thoughts on physical mediumship where ectoplasm comes out of a medium (through any orifice apparently) and a spirit manifest here in the material reality? I guess they can move objects in the room, solve puzzles, and touch people and clothes? Victorzammit.com talks about this a lot along with a lot of other crazy phenomena.
Also what is your thoughts on people doing research into substances like DMT and creating an “afterlife” map even though a lot of these people don’t believe in the afterlife they think it’s all in the brain based on psychedelics? I hear a lot of NDE debunkers say it’s just because DMT or whatever chemical is being released in the dying brain. I remember hearing about a guy named Rick Strassman there others as well his research into DMT which his book is called “DMT – The Spirit Molecule”. I guess he has a bunch of people they go on these “DMT trips” over and over again and then create some sort of map based on the commonalities? And how does drugs affect the spirit since there is no physical inflow into spiritual things?
And I just want to add more thought that popped up. I remember hearing people say the afterlife is actually just a parallel material universe that we are tapping into or tapping into an “actor” within this material universe not actually an afterlife that that is a distinct separate reality. So we are just tapping into our parallel self or someone else’s “avatar” in a different material universe or material dimension or even in this material universe/dimension. So all our spiritual experiences are reduce down again to some material experience or explanation. What do you make of this as well?
Thank you very much Lee
Hi Sam,
As covered in my article on reincarnation here, belief in bodily reincarnation, which is the universal belief in New Age circles, is itself a literalist and fundamentalist interpretation of the Eastern scriptures, which are really talking about spiritual rebirth when they talk about being born again. Taking metaphorical language literally leads to error in Eastern religion just as much as it does in Western religion.
About “physical mediumship,” the first question is whether it is real or faked. There are so many charlatans out there faking these things that I take all these “true experiences” with a grain of salt. But even if they are real, they all have the same explanations I’ve been giving here all along. Either these are things seen with people’s spiritual eyes or they are spiritual forces making themselves vaguely visible through influencing material things.
It is possible for spiritual forces to directly influence material things, but it mostly doesn’t happen these days because people are so materialistic that their mindset blocks any influence of the spiritual world on their physical environment. Some people whose minds are open to the reality of spirit can use the correspondential relationship between the spiritual world and the physical world to manipulate physical things. For those that aren’t just plain fakers, that’s what’s happening.
But once again, it’s really just parlor tricks.
I’m in no way an expert on DMT. In general, I’m not in favor of using drugs to have spiritual experiences. It’s like using a helicopter to fly to the top of Mt. Everest instead of climbing it. It’s just not the real thing. In particular, drugs don’t develop the character required to actually be a spiritual person. It’s like taking a one-day vacation in Paradise rather than living there permanently.
For some people, having a drug trip does break the mold of their usual thinking and set them on a more thoughtful and spiritual path. Ideally, they will get off the drugs, and start working on their spiritual life in real life.
For for other people, psychedelic drugs become a crutch and a substitute for actual spiritual rebirth and growth. It allows them to delude themselves into thinking that they are spiritually advanced when in fact they haven’t done any of the required work on their own character and life. This is why so many “spiritual gurus” end out exploding their ashrams when the usual earthly human desires for wealth, power, sex, and so on rear their ugly heads in the “guru.” Instead of recognizing their own wrong desires and actions and repenting from them, they pass it all off as “spiritual,” and attack and excommunicate anyone who tries to call them on it. But as is obvious to any person with the most basic common sense, piling up Rolls Royces while your followers live in voluntary poverty and having sex with one young and pretty female follower after another is not spiritual. You will know them by their fruits.
For some thoughts on DMT from someone who has a more solid knowledge about it, see this comment on another thread.
At any rate, DMT trips will have all the same limitations that NDEs do, and even more, because they are drug-induced rather than naturally occurring. Any “maps” of the spiritual world made through the use of DMT will be just as subject to error as “maps” made by “NDE researchers.”
As for the afterlife being just a parallel universe, it continues to amaze me the complicated explanations people come up with in order to avoid the simplest and most obvious conclusion: that there is a spiritual realm entirely distinct from this physical realm to which we go permanently at the time of our death, and which some people pay brief visits to during their earthly lifetime. If people really, really want to avoid the obvious explanation of the accumulated spiritual experiences of humankind over thousands of years, they’re welcome to come up with these fancy, far-fetched materialistic explanations. As for me, I’m happy to accept the simple and obvious explanation.
About reincarnation. Is this the right comment to reply to?
The Vedas and Upanishads would be figurative or metaphorical, not to be taken literally, right? The mentions of Purusha, Vishnu, Shiva, and Brahma are just metaphors.
Hi World Questioner,
When it comes to their statements about being born again, I believe the Eastern Scriptures were intended to be read figuratively not literally. In other words, they are talking about spiritual rebirth, not about reincarnation.
Can you say something about what I said of Hindu scriptures such as the Vedas? These texts should be taken as either allegorical, poetic, or mythical, not literal. The descriptions of Vishnu, Shiva, Brahma, and other gods is metaphorical or figurative, right?
Hi World Questioner,
Originally, the various figures that became the gods of polytheistic religions were representations of various aspects or characteristics of the one God. It was only later that people started thinking that they were each individual gods.
Some say that DMT is magical, enchanted, or supernatural, but that’s not entirely accurate.
The brain has a veil that keeps the spiritual world out. DMT breaks that veil. Check out https://leewoof.org/2015/08/02/a-shortish-video-course-on-near-death-experiences/#comment-176476
Hi Lee,
Thank you so kindly again for the in depth clarification on all these subjects and how regardless of the spiritual ways it is experienced it still ties into the same way like you said and the correspondence on physical things which makes so much sense.
Yesterday I was reading Heaven and Hell and I came across this passage and I think this is a good summary on materialist explanations.
“Many of the learned are more insane in spiritual matters than simple people because they are negatively disposed, confirming [their opinions] by the information that is constantly and abundantly in their view”
Thank you kindly Lee
Hi Sam,
That quote pretty well sums it up! People who think they’re Very Smart are much more likely to reject and poo-poo God and spirit than people who do not have such a high opinion of themselves. See:
God Is Unconvincing To Smart Folks? – Part 1
Did I not already post this? What do you think of https://religionspiritualphilosophy.wordpress.com/2024/12/01/my-religion-and-afterlife-theories/ and https://religionspiritualphilosophy.wordpress.com/2025/05/18/the-real-afterlife-theory/? A death barrier? Since it has two comments, it will await moderation. But I don’t know why I didn’t see my comment with the Italic text “Your comment is awaiting moderation.”
Hi World Questioner,
Your last two comments were basically just links to your blog, which isn’t the purpose of the comments sections here, so I deleted them.
Obviously I don’t believe there is a “death barrier.” Swedenborg published a whole book called Heaven and Hell. If you want to know what the afterlife is like, read it.
As for your other post, that’s the tangles you get into when you try to take the Bible literally. ‘Nuff said.
Did you read the blog post? I’ll quote part of it: Instead, I hold to a Death Barrier. And no, I’m not talking about the thing in Super Mario and other games where when the character goes into the bottomless pit, a life is lost when the player crosses the horizontal barrier of death. No, I’m talking about the barrier between this world and the afterlife. You don’t know what the afterlife is like until you die. Information cannot go from the Otherworld to the living word.
I’ll also quote that I know that somewhere beyond this crooked world, there’s a better world where I get to live the life I always wanted. I call it the Beyond-World. Maybe it’s the same as the Otherworld.
But please read the rest.
Hi World Questioner,
I read part of it. And I was responding specifically about this “death barrier.” There is no such thing. Read Heaven and Hell.
But since you lean heavily toward materialism, you’ll probably have to wait until after you die to find out that it’s all true.
Oh, and if there were a death barrier, most of the stories in the Bible could not have happened, because they involve angels from heaven guiding the lives of people on earth, not to mention visions of things in heaven.
Actually, that’s not all that I meant by a death barrier. I also meant a barrier that we have to die to get to the afterlife. To access the otherworld, we have to die. We can’t just freely transport between the living world and the otherworld. When we die, we awaken in the other world.
Did you read what I said about wanting to be a kid once more, and grow up again, and what I said about first crush and the rest?
Hi World Questioner,
That was a while ago. If you have some question you want to run by me, you’re free to post it here.
As I said in the post that I linked you to, after I die, I wish I could be a kid once more and grow up again just one more time. Live in a peaceful paradise, where I’m all alone and there seems to be no one. Then a girl appears as if out of nowhere right behind me. Perhaps she’s someone who died as a child and never got to grow up and meet a man… Who knows. I would have my first love/crush all over again, even though I already had a first crush on Earth, I want do it over again, but with a different girl. Even if she’s not someone who died as a child… I could say she’s a new person born in the other world or another world (definite or indefinite article), because of all that was was lost on Earth. But you say that all babies are born on Earth. If she’s someone who didn’t die as a child but grew up to adulthood, that’s ok.
You didn’t comment on what I said in the post I linked you to, which I gave above.
I want a better childhood. I want my life to be rewritten. But I don’t want the good memories to be erased, just the childhood refactored. I wish I had a better term than rewritten.
Hi World Questioner,
It’s a nice dream. Nothing wrong with that.
But even in the spiritual world, everything you have experienced here on earth will still be a part of you. You’ll still be the person that you became here on earth. There aren’t any do-overs.
However, presuming your heart is good, and you devoted your life here on earth to loving and serving other people, and not just yourself, in heaven you can leave behind all the negatives of this life, and live a simple, good life, without all the complications and heartbreaks of this life.
And yes, you can meet the woman who is the right woman for you, fall in love, and live happily ever after.
What about time travel, I mean, not in changing the past, but reliving memories? I’m not talking about breaking causality.
Does God really, REALLY know best? What’s best for this world and us?
I want to be compensated for what I missed out on or what didn’t work out.
Hi World Questioner,
Literal time travel seems not to be possible. But in the spiritual world, time doesn’t exist. People live in the present, which, for them, contains both the past and the future. But even for angels and spirits, the future has not yet happened.
Of course God knows best. But God also doesn’t force us to accept what’s best. God respects our freedom and our choices, and works within them to lead us toward what is eternally good.
And believe me, if you live a good life here on earth, meaning a life of caring about other people as well as yourself, you will be abundantly “compensated” in heaven for any sufferings and missed opportunities you had here. But it won’t be compensation. It will be God giving you the best life you can possibly imagine, forever, because God loves you and wants you to be happy.
But what if we doubt what’s best?
If we saw the future and knew we’d regret our choices, we wouldn’t make them?
I’d like to give more, but I’m out of screen time for today.
Hi World Questioner,
If we knew the future, we would lose our freedom and our motivation, because it would feel like everything is already predetermined, and that it doesn’t matter what we do. God purposely does not allow us to see the future, but only to get some sense of it based on the past and the present, so that we can be free, and make choices that are real choices.
We build our own future by the choices we make in the present.
I mean, if we could see the future, and see what the consequences will be if we do something, then we’d avoid the future by not making themistake.
Hi World Questioner,
And we wouldn’t learn the lesson we needed to learn by making that mistake.
Watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxHYakfl_UM. I wish I could be reborn with all my memories. Then I would avoid the mistakes I made in the previous life. I’d have all the lessons from my previous life.
Hi World Questioner,
Unfortunately, that’s just not how life works. We start with no knowledge at all, and gain knowledge over time. A person who has the knowledge of an adult who has lived a lifetime of experiences cannot inhabit the body of an infant who has no knowledge. The spirit would not match the body. This is a central fallacy of reincarnationist theory.
Each birth represents a brand new person, who progresses from no knowledge and only the beginnings of a mind to a fully adult person who has knowledge and experience, and can make choices about life.
As for the alternate timeline presented in the video, it would result in an entirely different story than the one told in the actual original Star Wars trilogy. For one thing, there would be no room for Luke Skywalker, and no need for his character, because Anakim would have already done everything Luke might have done in defeating the power of evil.
Hi World Questioner,
Oh, I meant to comment on the part about “attachments.” The whole monastic ideal of having no human attachments, no marriage, no sex is a great big fat hairy detour away from the actual “force” of life. The Jedi in the Star Wars universe adopted this from various ascetic sects and orders, both Christian and non-Christian, and it is, in my view, a huge error, taking away the full humanity of the Jedi characters. So that particular revision to the Star Wars canon would, in my view, be a good one.
I’m disappointed and sad that there aren’t any do-overs.
Hi World Questioner,
That’s why it’s important, even essential, to do your best with this life. The character you build here is the character you will live in forever.
I don’t like it that way. I don’t want change to only occur in the physical world. Is God really, REALLY sure that’s the best way?
I just thought about the idea of hungry ghosts. Are ghosts really hungry, as is widely believed?
Hi World Questioner,
Our time on earth is like our time in the womb. That’s where we develop into the person we’re going to be. But even after we’re born, we still grow up and become an adult. In the same way, in heaven we continue to learn and grow. But we do it based on the character we built here on earth.
Ghosts’ “hunger” is psychological hunger, not physical hunger, though in the spiritual world it expresses itself as physical hunger. They are hungry for emotional and mental things, not physical things.
But what about those that die young? They haven’t even finished their development in the “womb” as you call it. Why can’t their physical bodies die when God calls them to?
Hi World Questioner,
Did something get garbled there? The physical bodies of those who die young do die.
That’s what I mean. But the physical bodies die too early, when the children haven’t completed their stage in the “womb” as you call the physical world.
Why don’t the physical bodies just die when God wants them to? Why don’t the physical bodies just die right when the person has completed their stage in the “womb” as you so-call it? You might object that some babies are born premature.
Hi World Questioner,
Baecause of the existence of evil, which is something we humans originated, not God. This world is imperfect, meaning, on the human level, partially evil. And God won’t eliminate all human evil because that would be eliminating our freedom, and our humanity along with it.
What God therefore does is to bring the best outcome possible out of the evil and imperfection of this world. That means, in the case of people who die before reaching adulthood, providing for them to be raised the rest of the rest of the way to adulthood in heaven, and always becoming angels, because they have never chosen evil over good as self-responsible adults.
In the case of people who die in adulthood before reaching old age, assuming they have chosen good over evil even in the most limited way, God gives them a very happy life in heaven based on the good in them. The next article I post here will illustrate this using the story of Abraham’s pleading for Sodom in Genesis 18.
I feel like I’m cursed, because I’m autistic, ADHD, and OCD, and as a result, I’ve made many mistakes, behaved poorly, and overreacted. And the consequences of all that happened, like being blocked by many on social media, downvoted with negative comment karma or negative reputation, and other things too that I can’t think of right now. Having to delete accounts. If only I could see the future and avoid the future before it happens. So I could see the future of what will happen if I do something, so I can avoid it.
But you might answer that some people have done much worse things than me, and have had much worse consequences than me.
But to me, there’s no such thing as a small problem. Every problem is big to me. It’s like forgetting ingredients, such as eggs or oil in a brownie mix.
I’m not blessed, I’m cursed. It’s my faulty biology…
Speaking of which, what would Swedenborg say about autism? I don’t suppose being autistic has a spiritual component. If the physical body is autistic, could there be autism in the spirit too?
Hi World Questioner,
On an individual level, our physical diseases don’t correspond to our spiritual state. They affect our spiritual state to some extent, though not fatally. But just because a person is autistic in this life, that doesn’t mean his spirit is autistic.
In the afterlife, our physical diseases are left behind because they are part of our physical body, which we leave behind at death. Most “mental illnesses” are the same. They’re really physical illnesses or genetic disorders that prevent our mind from working at its full potential as long as we are living in our physical body. These, too, will be left behind at death. You will not be autistic in the spiritual world.
Also, in the afterlife, our actions are judged mostly by the intentions behind them. Did you intend to hurt and annoy people when you said the things that got you blocked and banned? Probably not. It’s just that people on the spectrum have a harder time reading and reacting to social cues, so they tend to be awkward socially. I’m sure you understand this much better than I do. But none of this will be held against you in the spiritual world, because its not something you chose.
Meanwhile, assuming you are a self-responsible adult, you can still make choices, and those choices are either good or bad. I’m not talking about trivial choices like whether to cuss at someone, but big choices such as what you’re going to devote your life and work to doing. If you choose to do something good and constructive with your life, you will be building a life of heaven within yourself, and you will live in heaven, without your earthly autism, after you die.
How does spiritual vs. materialistic/fleshy mindset relate to escapism?
I don’t suppose escapism would be materialistic or fleshy. How is it not spiritual even if I’m just trying to escape the physical world?
Also, sometimes I feel that the grass is greener in other worlds, whether other planets in the universe or even other universes/dimensions in the multiverse/omniverse. Am I alone on thinking that? When I say “the grass is greener” I mean metaphorically. I’m also not talking about just anywhere “on the other side.”
Hi World Questioner,
Hmm. Interesting question. I’d have to think about that. Off the cuff, I don’t know if there’s any direct connection between escapism and the spiritual vs. materialistic spectrum.
As far as the grass being greener, that’s a widespread feeling, but usually the grass isn’t really any greener on the other side. On the other hand, Swedenborg does say that our planet is the lowest of the low spiritually compared to other planets. Meaning, our planet is more materialistic than any other planet. So on the materialistic vs. spiritual spectrum, according to Swedenborg, the grass really is greener on the other side of the planetary fence.
This is not envy.
Also, if there was a world where some people always obeyed God 100.infinity-zeros-percent and never suffered, I wouldn’t be envious of them.
But since death was always intended to be part of God’s physical creation, and there was never an Eden-like paradise, then things aren’t as good, or rather appealing, as Jews and materialistic Christians always thought. From their point of view. Not only that, but there is no apocalypse where evil is destroyed. And that’s not to mention the lack of a physical restoration of Israel, which the Israelites are disappointed by.
Evil will never be destroyed – very disappointing.
Hi World Questioner,
Being born again (regenerated) requires that we be in a state of freedom, which means being in a state of balance between good and evil. Jesus did conquer and subdue hell. And now he (meaning God) keeps hell under control, and keeps those of us who are living here on earth in a continual balance between heaven and hell, meaning between good and evil, so that we can be in a state of freedom to choose what kind of person we want to be: good or evil.
Evil will be destroyed, but only for those who choose good over evil, and only after they finish their lives here on earth. People in heaven no longer have to deal with evil. They have “rest from their labors,” which means rest from their spiritual labors: the struggles of temptation and the labor of overcoming evil and sin.
Why can’t we just go to Heaven when we are not doing work on Earth? When I’m at home at my house on Earth, not talking to anyone outside the house, then I am not really performing my ministry, am I? Earth should be like the workplace, and Heaven should be like home. Except there’s no clocking in and out involved. I’m talking to my housemates or my family, but suppose that they are redeemed and could just go to Heaven with me.
Hi World Questioner,
We can’t live in the spiritual world as long as we have a physical body. Even Paul said that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
Why is that?
The womb? What if a person dies prematurely? Wouldn’t he go to the spiritual world before he completed his growth in the physical world?
When a person completes their growth in the physical world, why does their physical body have to simply die? Why can’t it just disappear/fade into nothing so that the person awakens in the spiritual world? Why can’t they just go to the spiritual world at God’s time?
Hi World Questioner,
Because matter is not simply an extension of spirit, nor is the material universe simply an extension of the spiritual universe. Each has its own distinct existence on its own level.
Our physical body is made of physical matter. The life in it is our spirit. The body itself is intrinsically dead, but as long as the spirit dwells in it, it has life from the spirit. As soon as the spirit departs, which we call death, the body dies, because it has no life of its own.
But it doesn’t just disappear. It’s still made of matter, and matter has its own distinct existence. So instead of disappearing, once its life, which was its spirit, departs, the physical laws of entropy take over, and it begins to disintegrate and decompose.
The spirit, meanwhile, continues to live on in the spiritual world. And since that’s where all our life and consciousness is, we continue just as we were before, complete with a spiritual body that, at least at first, looks and feels exactly like our physical body did, although later it changes to perfectly reflect our true inner character.
The physical body can’t go to the spiritual world because it’s made of matter, not spirit.
About people who die prematurely, before reaching adulthood, they continue to grow to maturity in heaven, and become angels.
I said in https://religionspiritualphilosophy.wordpress.com/2018/02/17/about/:
“I believe that this physical, material world, where all life is a product of evolution and we descended from apes, is Maya, which means “Illusion” in Sanskrit. I believe that the Genesis Creation Narrative, including the Flood Narrative, happened in another, higher plane of existence, the “real” or the “truth,” whatever is the antonym of Maya in Sanskrit.”
I might be misunderstanding the meaning of Sanskrit Maya. Maya is the illusion of self in Hinduism and Buddhism. AI told me that the antonym of Maya is Brahman or Atman.
But perhaps Swedenborg has something similar – the physical body could relate to the illusion of self. Specifically, that the illusion that the physical body is the self is Maya. But our spiritual bodies are our true self. Is Maya a good term for this?
Hi World Questioner,
In Swedenborg’s system, the material world and our physical body are not mere illusion. They are real and solid, even if they are at a lower level of reality than the spiritual world and our spiritual body, which, in turn, are at a lower level of reality than God.
The illusion comes when we think that the material world and our physical body are the only things that are real, or are the most real things. That is indeed an illusion, because spirit is actually more real than matter, and God is more real than spirit.
I was talking about the illusion of self and identity.
Hi World Questioner,
Self and identity are not necessarily illusions. Yes, we can have a false sense of self, such as being all puffed up with pride when there’s really no reason to be prideful. But we do have a real identity, and if we’re realistic about it, then it’s not an illusion, but a reality.
Also, there is such a thing as a heavenly sense of self, which is the identity and self that God gives us when we follow the two Great Commandments of loving God above all and our neighbor as ourself. This is the good person that we become when we are spiritually reborn. It, too, is not an illusion, but a reality.
In heaven, we don’t lose our sense of self. Just the opposite. We have a very distinct sense of self, but we also recognize that this is not our own, but a gift from God.
That’s not what I meant. I meant, the illusion that the physical body is the self. Swedenborg teaches that the true self is the spiritual body, incomparison to the Hindu belief that the Atman is the true self. Hinduism teaches that we have the illusion that the things in our life is our selves. You know what I mean?
Hi World Questioner,
Right. The physical body is not the self. It is a tool that the real self, which is the spirit, uses to live temporarily in this world.
The illusion of self in the physical body. The spiritual body is the true self.
The illusion of physical identity. The illusion of physical self.
Hi World Questioner,
Thy physical body is not an illusion. The physical self is not an illusion. Both of these are real. They’re not as real as the spiritual self, but they are real, and not an illusion.
They become illusory only when we think they’re the only real thing, or that they’re more real than our spiritual self. Even then, it’s not our physical body or identity itself that’s the illusion. It’s our illusory attitude toward it.
Couldn’t our spiritual bodies just leave our physical bodies, so that the latter are dormant when we are not performing our ministry on Earth?
Hi World Questioner,
What do you mean? That you think our physical bodies should just hang around intact, like Lenin in his tomb, after we’re already dead?
We would go back to our physical bodies when we are back to our ministry. If the spirit left the body and the body wasn’t dead but only dormant…
Hi World Questioner,
But that’s not what actually happens. We will never go back to our physical body, because it has served its purpose, and is no longer needed. Now we have a spiritual body, which is far more responsive to our will and our thoughts than our physical body ever was. Going back to our physical body would be like going back to living in a wheelchair when we are now able to run and jump.
I didn’t say we’d go back to our physical body once it dies.
Rather, I said we’d go back to our dormant physical bodies when we have more ministry to do. The physical bodies wouldn’t be dead, only dormant.
Hi World Questioner,
What would the purpose of this be, when we could be living in our eternal home in heaven instead?
Because we haven’t completed our purpose on Earth in this physical body. If we are in Heaven, we’d be much like the children that died prematurely, except that our bodies are dormant and we’d return to them when we have more ministry work to do. So we should be in Heaven when we are off work for lack of a better term.
Because when I’m at home, and I’m not talking to anyone outside the home, I’m not really doing ministry work, am I?
Hi World Questioner,
I’m not sure what you mean by “ministry work.” At any rate, that’s just not how it works. “It is appointed for mortals to die once and after that the judgment” (Hebrews 9:27).
Death means our spirit leaving our body. And when our spirit leaves our body, there is no more life in our body, so it immediately begins to decay, as all lifeless material things do. It can no longer support a spirit because its cells and organs are no longer functional.
It is unfortunate that not all of us get to complete our purposes here on earth. That is a result of the existence of evil, which we are responsible for. But even for those who die in infancy, the most basic purpose of our life on earth has been accomplished, which is to build us into a being capable of living to eternity in heaven.
Our physical bodies die, and our spiritual bodies are our true selves. But if there’s no physical resurrection, no literal resurrection event… If the spiritual body didn’t die but we always had the spiritual body the moment we are born, then it’s not really a resurrection because the physical body is not resurrected, and the spiritual body… How do I explain this. It would be a resurrection if our physical body died and then we got a new, spiritual body that we never had before. But not if we always had the spiritual body the moment we are born. Only the physical body ever died.
Hi World Questioner,
Interesting point. But it is our experience of it that makes it a resurrection. We experience the death of our physical body, and then we experience coming to life again in our spiritual body. Even though our spiritual body has been there all along, we have mostly not been aware of it, so it hasn’t been part of our experience. What we experience is our physical body. So when it dies, it feels to us as if we get a new (spiritual) body and rise again in that body.