In a recent comment, a reader named Anton said:
Hi Lee,
I lately watched a documentary about quantum physics that just confused me so much, to the point where I began to think about the transition and distinction between the physical and spiritual worlds, and I couldn’t really make sense of it in my head. Or to say it better, I got the Swedenborgian message, but I got confused by the quantum physics explanations.
So, it’s common for New Agers to believe that the afterlife is basically the exact same world, but on a level where molecules and stuff vibrate with a much higher frequency. They back this up with the quantum physics understanding that no energy whatsoever ever goes lost or disappears, it just becomes less and less (or something like that😅). No power can ever become zero or infinity. I think that from a Swedenborgian perspective, the physical and spiritual world are completely distinct from one another, but then how would you explain this phenomenon that people describe?
Kind regards
This is a slightly edited version of Anton’s question. (You can see the original here.) Here is a slightly edited version of my response. (You can see the original here.)
Hi Anton,
What is lacking in these New Age ideas is a clear understanding of Swedenborg’s concept of distinct levels and gradual levels (“discrete degrees” and “continuous degrees” in traditional Swedenborgianese). This is the subject of Part 3 of Divine Love and Wisdom (#173–281), if you want to read up on it for yourself.
Gradual levels are when something moves smoothly from one end of a spectrum to the other, such as light to dark or cold to hot. Distinct levels are when there are sudden jumps from one state to another, such as liquid, solid, and gaseous or sound waves, electromagnetic waves, and gravitational waves.
Distinct and gradual levels
Within the material universe there are various sets of distinct levels, such as the ones I just mentioned. These commonly (but not always) come in threes. Within each distinct level, there are gradual levels. For example, ice heats up, remaining ice, until its melting point, at which point it suddenly becomes liquid water. Liquid water likewise heats up, remaining water, until it reaches its boiling point, at which point it suddenly becomes gaseous water, or steam.
These transitions between distinct levels do often involve slower and faster frequencies—or “vibrations,” to use the popular term. Lower levels are often at lower frequencies, and higher levels are often at higher frequencies.
However, the frequency isn’t what distinguishes levels from one another. Sound waves and electromagnetic waves actually overlap each other in frequency. However, they are carried by two distinct media, and propagate by two distinct methods. Sound waves travel in a physical medium (solid, liquid, or gaseous), and involve mechanical motion in that medium. Electromagnetic waves are seen as being pure energy traveling without a medium, although I tend to think that the electromagnetic field itself constitutes a medium. In Swedenborg’s day, this was called the “ether,” but scientists no longer believe in ether.
At any rate, even though the frequencies overlap, sound waves don’t shade into electromagnetic waves, or the reverse. They are quite distinct from one another. Ditto electromagnetic waves and gravitational waves.
Interestingly enough, physicists have been attempting for over a century now to come up with a theory that unifies all the forces in the universe into a single descriptive equation, but have so far been unable to do so. I suspect this has something to do with the distinct levels between various types of energy in the physical universe. But I’m not a physicist, so you can take that theory with a grain of salt.
To sum up, although higher distinct levels tend to be capable of higher frequencies than lower distinct levels, they can overlap in frequency, meaning that frequency is not what distinguishes one level of reality from another.
Having said that, Swedenborg sometimes speaks of the ratio between spiritual and material as being a thousand to one. I don’t think he’s being literal. Rather, he’s saying that spiritual reality is orders of magnitude finer and more detailed than physical reality, which is very coarse-grained by comparison.
Levels of scale
Related to this, as covered in Part 3 of Divine Love and Wisdom, distinct levels can also involve successively larger bundlings of things. An example from today’s physics would be subatomic particles that bundle together to make atoms, atoms that bundle together to make molecules, and molecules that bundle together to form an object. Each of these levels of substance can be viewed distinctly. One level cannot be changed into another. Rather, a smaller level can be bound together in groups to form a larger level.
Neither is each level just a bigger bunch of the smaller level that constitutes it. Subatomic particles operate in a particular way, by a particular set of forces and laws. Atoms and molecules do behave in a similar fashion to each other, and probably shouldn’t even be considered in distinct levels from one another. But the objects made of atoms and molecules behave in a way distinct from the atoms and molecules that form them, according to a distinct set of forces and laws.
Other angles
These sorts of bundlings do not seem to be the only type of distinction between discrete levels. Spiritual reality is not just a “bundling” of divine reality (God). Nor is physical reality just a “bundling” of spiritual reality. But exploring all these distinctions would send us too far off on a tangent.
To round things out, distinct levels are also called “vertical levels,” because they are conceptually one above the other, whereas gradual levels are called “horizontal levels,” because they are gradual changes across the “width” of a particular distinct level of reality.
This is a very brief and imperfect summary of a concept that takes up one-fifth of Swedenborg’s grand cosmological work, Divine Love and Wisdom. If you’re interested in these fascinating and brain-bending subjects, I highly recommend reading that book for yourself.
The three major distinct levels
In the grand scheme of things, there are three distinct levels:
- The divine level of reality (God)
- The spiritual level of reality (the spiritual universe)
- The material level of reality (the physical universe)
Within each of these major distinct levels there are gradual levels, not to mention further subdivisions of distinct levels. Between each of them, there is a distinct level. This means that God does not shade into spirit, or the reverse, and material reality does not shade into spiritual reality, or the reverse. Each level is entirely distinct from the other two.
One of the key distinctions is that divine reality (God) is infinite, whereas both created levels of reality, spiritual and material, are finite. A corresponding distinction is that material reality is limited (made finite) by time and space, whereas spiritual reality is not. Rather, spiritual reality is limited (made finite) by the limitations of human mental and emotional states, corresponding to physical time and space.
These distinctions form definite boundaries between each of these levels of reality. Physical reality cannot blend into spiritual reality because physical reality is bounded by time and space, whereas spiritual reality is not. Spiritual reality cannot blend into divine reality because spiritual reality is bounded by the limitations of human intellectual and emotional capacity, whereas God’s intellect and emotions have no limitations at all: they are infinite.
Quantum physics is physical
How does all of this relate to your original question?
New Age technobabble to the contrary notwithstanding, we are not just bundles of quantum energy.
Quantum physics does sound strange and non-physical to ordinary people who are used to stubbing their toes on rocks. But quantum physics is still physics. It is the study of one particular area of material reality. Its forces and laws are all material forces and laws, not spiritual forces and laws. Some scientists who study quantum mechanics don’t even believe in God and spirit, yet they are perfectly comfortable with quantum physics. That’s precisely because quantum physics is physical, not spiritual.
Most New Agers who babble on about “quantum reality” and “quantum states” and mix them all up with spiritual reality and spiritual states have no scientific training, and do not even have the basics in mathematics and physics to understand what quantum mechanics is, and how physicists arrived at the theories underlying it. (I, also, do not claim to have such training and knowledge.) These are not spiritual theories. They are physical theories, arrived at by engaging in scientific method and physical experimentation.
The relationship between quantum physics and spiritual reality
Is there a relationship between quantum reality and spiritual reality? Yes, there is. Does quantum reality reflect spiritual reality? Yes, it does.
But it does so, not by blending into spiritual reality, but by reflecting spiritual reality on a lower distinct level of reality. Spiritual reality is spiritual. Quantum reality is physical. They do not blend into one another. They are entirely distinct from one another, just as sound waves, electromagnetic waves, and gravitational waves do not blend into each other, but are entirely distinct from one another. (However, spiritual reality is on a distinctly higher plane of reality than all of physical reality, including quantum physics.)
It’s not necessarily wrong to use modern physics as an illustration of spiritual things. I have attempted to do so, as a scientific layman, in this two-part series here:
However, in using physical phenomena to illustrate spiritual realities, it is important to recognize that these are two distinct levels of reality. They do not blend into each other. Rather, they relate to each other by what Swedenborg calls “correspondences.” But that’s an entirely different discussion of its own!
Physical reality is limited
As for no energy ever being lost or disappearing, that’s not quantum theory. It’s part of the second law of thermodynamics, which was formulated long before quantum theory even existed. Specifically, it is part of the concept of entropy, in which matter and energy can become more and more scattered, but cannot disappear entirely.
In physical reality, it does seem to be true that “no power can ever become zero or infinity.” On the zero end of the scale, it just keeps getting thinner and more spread out rather than ever reaching zero. On the infinite end of the scale, only God is infinite. There is not infinite energy in the physical universe because the physical universe is finite, not infinite.
In other words, this very limitation on physical reality is one of the reasons quantum reality can’t just be morphed into spiritual reality, and certainly not into God. The universe is not God, as the pantheists believe. A better concept is panentheism—as long as we don’t go for the versions of that theory in which the universe is part of God.
Physical reality is not part of spiritual reality, nor is spiritual reality part of physical reality. In accordance with Swedenborg’s concept of distinct levels, these two, and God, are distinctly different from one another. They are each distinct levels of reality that don’t blend into one another, but relate to each other through “correspondence.” That is another of Swedenborg’s concepts, about the living relationship between different levels of reality, in which lower levels do express the nature of higher levels, but in a more limited way than the higher levels they express.
We are physical and spiritual beings, not quantum beings
What does all this mean for us?
We humans are not just undifferentiated bundles of quantum energy. Rather, we consist of two of the three major levels of reality: spiritual and physical. (No part of us is God, and we are not part of God. However God is in us, continually giving us existence and life.)
Our physical body is the part of us that interacts with the physical world. Our spiritual body is the part of us that interacts with the spiritual world. Our (physical) body and our spirit are in constant detailed interaction with one another as long as we are living in the physical world. But one does not shade into the other, nor can one become the other. The two are quite distinct from one another.
When we die, we leave behind our physical body, since it is of no further use to us. We then wake up in our spiritual body, which we have had all along, and continue our life in the spiritual world. That world is just as solid, real, detailed, and complex as the physical world—in fact, much more so! And it is the world that we are ultimately designed to live in.
We move forward, not backward
Our time in this world is like our time in the womb. It is where we develop into the people we will be once we are “born” into the spiritual world at the time of our physical death. Our time in this world is therefore critical and indispensable, just as our time in the womb is critical and indispensable.
But like our time in the womb, it is also temporary. And there is no need to repeat it. Once we have developed our character in this world, we do not need to come back here and do it again, any more than we need to go back into our mother’s womb and start all over again once we have become an adult.
There is, of course, far more that could be said about all this. But I hope this much is enough to provide a better foundation for thinking about these things. Once again, for a deep dive into these subjects, I highly recommend Swedenborg’s book Divine Love and Wisdom. It is a masterclass in divine, spiritual, and physical reality!
For further reading:
- Divine Love and Wisdom, by Emanuel Swedenborg
- Wavicles of Love
- Containers for God
- How did God Create the Universe? Was the World Really Created in Six Days?
- When Death is a Celebration
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Lee Woofenden is an ordained minister, writer, editor, translator, and teacher. He enjoys taking spiritual insights from the Bible and the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg and putting them into plain English as guides for everyday life.
Spiritual Insights for Everyday Life 
Dear Lee,
Thank you very much for this article. It almost 100%-ly expresses my view of things, too. Yes, there is a problem with the New-Ageans. They talk very much, but often very superficially. Indeed, they are often without any deeper skill in natural sciences.
There is maybe one thing that I would like to add to your understanding of the quantum-physics-phenomena. I have been discussing the same topic with one respected scientist in our Republic lately. There has always been and still exists a tension between Einsteinian relativistic physics and Quantum physics because they arrive at seemingly antagonistic conclusions. And no physicist has yet been able to abolish this bitter dualism.
I am attaching 10 principles (slightly modified) on this topic that I have developed in the discussion mentioned above. They could give a clue of how to handle this insurmountable contradiction.
1.) Einsteinian relativistic physics generally observes the macroworld (stars, planets), or medium, i.e. Earth-sized, objects. Quantum physics generally observes the microworld (subatomic particles, photons).
(2.) In observing both the macroworld and the microworld, we observe the same universe, but two different aspects of the same universe; we observe, as it were, two different “things” on the same material level.
(3.) I assume the existence of at least two separate levels of being, or two separate worlds: a lower material world and a higher spiritual (immaterial) world. There is a natural world, the basis of which is the material world, and there is a spiritual world or the ideal world. The spiritual world is superior to the first because it shapes it as a cause and effect (just as the realm of ideas shapes the realm of matter).
(4.) The material world stabilizes and terminates the creation which originates or descends from the God-Spirit through the spiritual world. God is therefore an even higher level of being than the spiritual world.
(5.) The material realm is universally gifted with passivity or indolence, and the spiritual realm is gifted with vivacity and activity. The material thus counteracts the spiritual, which shows the different functions of both levels within God’s creation.
(6.) The macroworld refers to the material world, while the microworld refers to the spiritual world! Instead of “relates to the spiritual world” we can say “imitates the spiritual world”. The microworld forms the edge of the spiritual world and almost the boundary between the spiritual world and the material world. The microworld is therefore closer to the spiritual world, the macroworld is further from it.
(7.) The microworld has an inherent i n d e t e r m i n i s m u s , which is related to the freedom and liveliness of the spirit. The macro world, on the other hand, has its own d e t e r m i n i s m, which is related to the passivity and laziness of matter.
(8.) Let us observe these principles, for example, in sunlight: if sunlight is subject to the gravity of heavenly bodies and if the speed of its propagation in a vacuum is limited, it has a material character. On the contrary, if we only see material objects in the (particles of) light; if the speed of light is actually enormous or limiting in space; if light can once be a particle and the second time a wave; if light can create the aesthetic image of rainbow on raindrops, – then it has a spiritual character, i.e. it connects us to the spiritual world.
(9.) Let’s observe these principles in a well-known experiment where we shoot an electron in different ways from the source onto the screen: first perpendicularly: as expected, the image of the electron appears on the screen as a point particle. Then, between the source and the screen, let’s build a partition with one hole, which, however, is located outside the path of the electron. The result is the same image on the screen but shifted as it corresponds to the connection source – aperture – screen. It is as if the electron “saw” the hole through which it is supposed to fly at the beginning of its path and immediately took the right direction. He behaves even differently when we put a partition with two slits in his way. In such a situation, the electron turns into a wave that passes through both slits and creates an interference pattern on the screen, similar to what we would get if we sent a cone of light instead of a single(!) electron and replaced the screen with a sensitive film. However, the electron also reacts in the same way if we put a barrier in its path only after it has already been fired. It’s as if he received “information from the future” that a hole or two-slit partition would be placed in his path, and he immediately adapted to it when he fired.”
(10.) Thus, the particles of the microworld are a kind of emissaries of the realm of spirit in the realm of matter. On the one hand, they tend towards matter, on the other hand, they relate to their higher – spiritual – origin. (John 12:46) Here lies the reason for the contradiction that is felt between the two physicists, but also the possibility of their reconciliation.
If someone wants, let him imagine our natural world as a bubble (on a table). What’s inside this bubble is our natural world, what’s outside it is the spiritual world, and the bubble membrane is the realm of the quantum phenomena.
Let’s hope these ideas can help somehow.
Radko (from the Czech Republic)
Hi Radko,
Good to hear from you again.
I have nowhere near enough knowledge about relativity and quantum mechanics to evaluate your ten points from that standpoint. I am aware, though, that there is an unresolved tension or contradiction between relativity and quantum mechanics.
As for quantum mechanics being closer to the spiritual, perhaps. But it is still on the material side of the line. Quantum mechanics is a physical phenomenon, not a spiritual phenomenon.
In his scientific period Swedenborg did have a theory, published in his Principia, about the production of physical matter from spiritual matter. It involved tiny “first finites” that apparently had no dimensions, but were aggregated into “second finites,” “third finites,” and so on that did have dimensions. In his theological period, though, he seemed to cast shade on the idea of dimensionless points being able to form anything at all.
Swedenborg’s scientific inquiries and learning largely stopped when his spiritual eyes were opened. From then on, he relied on the science he already know. Some of it does come through in his theological writings, and some of it we now know to be mistaken.
Back in the 1920s there was a young woman named Lillian Beekman who hung around Bryn Athyn and got quite a few of the scholars and ministers there under her spell. She subscribed to what came to be called “the Beekman heresy,” which was that even Swedenborg’s scientific and philosophical writings are divinely inspired. There were some Bryn Athynites who did subscribe to this, and there was a period in which there were a lot of articles in the magazine The New Philosophy that took Swedenborg’s science as the last word on every scientific subject.
Eventually Beekman fell out of favor, at which point she left the New Church altogether and became a Catholic nun. But to this day, there are still conservative Swedenborgians who want to take everything Swedenborg ever said as somehow inspired, especially if it made its way into his theological writings.
As for me, I am content to leave relativity and quantum mechanics to the scientists. These are, after all, physical theories, not spiritual theories. Perhaps the quantum level is the level of the physical realm that is closest to the spiritual, and most directly influenced by it. If so, that’s fascinating, but it still doesn’t change the fact that quantum mechanics describes phenomena that are physical, not spiritual.
At any rate, if there is any such connection between the spiritual and the physical via quantum phenomena, I’ll leave that to people who have actually studied quantum mechanics enough to have a good understanding of it. I attempt to stick mostly to the things I do know, and not write based on things I don’t know. 😉
Maybe I could ask these as a Spiritual Conundrum. Are parallel universes and extra dimensions a real thing? Is Heaven a parallel universe? Is the Spiritual world extradimensional? Are the Physical and Spiritual worlds two separate parallel universes or dimensions? For reference, see the Wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_universe.
What about the M-theory and earlier string theories?
Could Heaven have 10 dimensions rather than three, not counting time?
Did God create the world with ten dimensions, but then seven of them shrunk and three of them grew to cosmic scale? One Creationist idea is that the world was created with ten dimensions, but starting with the Fourth Day of Creation, three dimensions grew and seven dimensions shrunk.
Perhaps we have ten dimensions, but seven of the dimensions are so small that we can’t sense them.
Walt Brown says that the Universe expanded since the Fourth Day. Universe expanding creationscience.com References: http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/AstroPhysicalSciences21.html and https://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/FAQ14.html. But you don’t trust young earth creationists. No matter, doesn’t the Bible say that God “stretched out the Heavens”?
Hi World Questioner,
I have my doubts that parallel universes are a real thing. I certainly don’t believe that every possible universe exists, such that there’s one in which you would have one more hair on your head, but it is otherwise exactly the same as this universe. From what I’ve heard, most real scientists don’t like multiverse theory because it’s not a real scientific theory, meaning it cannot be tested and disproven or established more firmly through scientific method.
Heaven is not a parallel universe. Parallel universes are parallel physical universes. Heaven is not physical. It is part of the spiritual universe.
The spiritual world is “extradimensional” in the sense that it does not have the dimensions that the material world does. There is no space as we know it in the spiritual world, and therefore no physical dimensions. It is therefore not “extradimensional” in the sense that it has more dimensions than the physical world. It is beyond and outside of physical dimensions altogether.
Creationists are always coming up with silly ideas in an attempt to fit science into their materialistic reading of the Bible. It’s hard to keep up with them all. And mostly a waste of time, because none of them make any sense at all. The last article you linked is so full of scientific errors that it would take many pages just to list them all. I’m not a scientist, but just from my knowledge of physics and cosmology, I can tell you that whoever wrote this article is either entirely ignorant of the science involved in stellar evolution or he’s willfully ignoring science and making up his own pseudoscience.
But what about seven dimensions shrinking since the Big Bang, and three dimensions growing to cosmic scale?
Hi World Questioner,
Perhaps some scientist has said that. I don’t know. It doesn’t seem to form part of the accepted theory of the Big Bang. Or if it does, it’s not in any of the ordinary explanations of it that I’m aware of.
If I understand right, even though Swedenborg claims that there’s some border of “the finest thing from nature” a spirit takes with them (maybe such is spacetime or so-called quantum foam?), the spirit realm (hell, the World of Spirits, and Heaven) is definitely a realm beyond space and time, and is also beyond physical matter (which of course includes any subatomic particles such as gluons or electrons)?
PS: In other words, I think that the spirit realm as described in writings by Swedenborg is as different from this physical existence as a so-called virtual reality simulation is from the physical realm (ignoring that such a simulation runs on physical hardware).*
*(One is a realm of atoms and spacetime, the other is a display based on numerical data that has no physical space in it.)
Hi K,
Yes. In fact, the spiritual world is much more different from the physical world than a virtual reality simulation. For example, virtual reality still involve time and space, which don’t exist in the spiritual world. Everything in a virtual reality simulation is tied to the timers in the CPUs that simulate it. The spiritual world, by contrast, is not tied to any timer.
Hi K,
Yes. The spiritual world is made entirely of spiritual substance, which has nothing in common with physical substance. That includes subatomic particles, quantum fields, and so on. None of these are part of the spiritual world.
As for that limbus or border, no one really knows what it is, because Swedenborg said so little about it. But it would still have to be anchored in the physical world, because physical substance cannot enter into the spiritual world.
What do you know about metaphysical monism, dualism, and pluralism? Which one do you believe as a Swedenborgian?
Hi World Questioner,
I have a basic idea of what these things mean. I don’t think any of them fully or accurately describe Swedenborg’s schema of the universe. Some say that Swedenborg is a dualist, but really, he’s a trialist (I know that’s not a real word), because his system has not two levels, but three:
Further, his system of “correspondence” ties these levels together in a way that is generally lacking in dualist systems, which commonly have trouble defining the relationship between their two levels.
Swedenborg is not a monist precisely because he posits three levels of existence. However, he also sees these three levels as being in constant close relationship with one another. And so, some Swedenborgians do say that Swedenborg is a monist.
But really, it all adds up to Swedenborg not fitting neatly into any of these metaphysical systems.
What about Cartesianism? Is it closer to what you believe than fideism? What about Aristotelianism and empiricism? Which of these for best describes what you believe? In Cartesianism, is do God, mind, and matter correspond to the Swedenborgian concepts of divine, spiritual, and physical realms respectively?
What about Esoterism? Refer to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plane_(esotericism).
What about gnosticism, theosophy, and rosicrucianism? What post of yours should I have posted this comment on?
Hi World Questioner,
That link is about planes of reality. Anyway, what’s your question. What about these things?
What do you think of those four philosophies?
Hi World Questioner,
Not much. They’re mostly about “secret knowledge.” But real religion is about love and good deeds.
How does Swedenborg’s concepts of three realms compare to the Cartesian concepts of matter, mind, and divine? Do those three correspond to the physical, spiritual, and divine realms respectively? Do you believe in rationalism, empiricism, or fideism? Or do you believe in duality of rational (reason) and empirical (sensory experiences), or the plurality of faith, reason, and sensory experiences?
Hi World Questioner,
I am not familiar enough with Descartes’ system to say. But it certainly sounds like there is a parallel. And Swedenborg did favor a Cartesian view of the universe during his earlier scientific period.
About rationalism, empiricism, and fideism, these represent what could be called Swedenborg’s three pillars of knowledge: the Word (meaning the Bible), reason, and experience. Swedenborg commonly drew on all three to support his teachings and Bible interpretations.
These are not mutually exclusive or in conflict with one another as is commonly believed, but support one another, each adding its own angle of support for the truth. After all, if God created both the spiritual world and the material world, both should testify to the true nature of God and spirit, if seen accurately and understood correctly.
Is the physical world mundane? Would you say that the spiritual world is… What is the antonym of mundane?
Hi World Questioner,
Spiritual.
Why doesn’t God give a cosmology like the three realms (divine, spiritual, and physical)? Why isn’t Aion Pneumatikos or Kosmos Pneumatikos in the New Testament, and why isn’t the Hebrew equivalent in the Old Testament? What is the Biblical basis for Swedenborg’s cosmology?
Hi World Questioner,
On your first question, see my response to another of your recent comments, here.
Cosmology isn’t the sort of thing that the Bible is intended to provide a basis for. It simply adopts existing cosmological ideas (such as that the earth is a flat disk above which is a dome forming the heavens), and uses those ideas as illustrations and metaphors for the human, spiritual, and divine issues it wishes to address.